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Which is the best lossless codec?, Discussion thread
kotrtim
post Nov 26 2004, 05:40
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1. LOWER COMPRESSION BUT HIGHER CPU USAGE
2. NO COMPRESSION MODE TO SELECT

EDIT : But compared with Monkey's Audio, WMA still use more power.

WMA = 34.0MB = ~13% CPU Usage
Monkey's Audio - High = 33.7MB = ~7% CPU Usage

This post has been edited by kotrtim: Nov 26 2004, 06:17
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rjamorim
post Nov 26 2004, 18:36
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QUOTE (guruboolez @ Nov 26 2004, 10:40 AM)
I've tested recently with MAC 3.99 (artificial corruption through hex. editor): files are perfectly playable with foobar2000. A small part was missing, the console poped-up in order to inform me about a CRC error. No player crash, no abrupt sound or ending.
~Three years ago, I was able to do the same thing with Winamp MAC plug-in.
*


Hrm... the plot deepens

OK then, I put Monkey's as error robust again.

QUOTE (kurtnoise @ Nov 26 2004, 10:44 AM)
Some notes about RALF :

I made some quick tests with Helix Producer to see the behaviours of this lossless codec with some others...Why Helix Producer : because there are 3 encoding modes whereas in RealPlayer it's only one. So, according to my results I'll be much less enthousiast like kotrtim...

The method that I used is the same as Speek. For the Real Audio Lossless, I extracted my wave files with EAC and then encoding with Helix Producer. Decoding has made by RealPlayer 10.

I created some tables to observe different results (it's in French, but I think it's readable.) BTW, some Hints : vitesse d'encodage == Encoding Speed ; vitesse de décodage == Decoding Speed ; Ratio de Compression == Compression Ratio ; Taille == Size. cool.gif
Tests made on Pentium 3 800 Mhz & 512 Mo RAM.  I hope that help somebody.
*


It will be very useful for me, thanks. And no worries about french, je peut comprendre un petit peu smile.gif

QUOTE (guruboolez @ Nov 26 2004, 10:44 AM)
I forgot: nice initiative Roberto.


Thanks

QUOTE
Two comments:
- LA is missing. Deliberate choice?


No. As I wrote near the end of the comparision:
"Formats I need help from forum members about pros and cons: TTA, LPAC, LA..."

I didn't add LA because of lack of information on it. But I guess i'll add it now with whatever I know about it, and count on users to help me fill the gaps.

QUOTE
- I suggest an additional line, with "extra-future" including all things "that is a popular enough feature to justify being mentioned" like:
high-resolution audio, md5 hash, self-extract module, various containers compatibility, etc...
*


Good idea. Maybe something that doesn't really justify as pros and cons, like container support, but still might be interesting to some people. I'll work on it.


QUOTE (kotrtim @ Nov 26 2004, 11:28 AM)
according to the player itself (Itunes n Real)
Apple Lossless encode at ~18X
Real Lossless encode at ~12X

If Real is "VERY FAST" Apple shouldn't be "AVERAGE"

To be more accurate, someone has to use a stop watch? and encode the same uncompressed file to measure the speed........ That needs lot of time wink.gif
*


Haha, dude, you said yourself Real is very fast w00t.gif

QUOTE
this is the first time i test REAL,no kidding, REAL Lossless encodes very fast


Since Hans never got around to testing Real on his comparision, I couldn't rely on him to provide speed values. So I relied on your data :B


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HansHeijden
post Nov 26 2004, 20:17
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 26 2004, 06:36 PM)
Since Hans never got around to testing Real on his comparision, I couldn't rely on him to provide speed values. So I relied on your data :B
*

Indeed back in May I wanted to test Real as well, and initally had several problems getting the software to function correctly. With the help of Karl that was solved ultimately. But then it appeared decoding required the "plus" version of RealPlayer 10. Only free solution for decoding was the Helix software. All these complications made me decide to put Real lossless on hold, so it can mature and become free. (See edit below)

FWIW, I do however still have the 7-album ("all") result, for compression only:
high mode: 56.94% at 3.2x speed
medium mode: 56.98% at 4.2 speed
low mode: 59.36% at 10.5 speed

Great to see that all the other important properties of lossless compressors are becoming gathered here, that's too much, and too changeable for me to deal with!

Edit: After reading again some emails with Karl, I recall some more things. In the end I used the Helix software for both compress and decompress. It was free and only required registration. But the files produced some audible skips during playback in RealPlayer, and certain error messages during decompression with Helix.

This post has been edited by HansHeijden: Nov 26 2004, 21:14
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Posts in this topic
- kotrtim   Which is the best lossless codec?   Nov 26 2004, 05:40
- - rjamorim   Thanks. I added "unefficient" to WMA...   Nov 26 2004, 05:50
- - kotrtim   roberto , i'm so sorry wma compression is a bi...   Nov 26 2004, 06:04
- - sshd   1. inefficient not unefficient 2. Neither FLAC no...   Nov 26 2004, 06:09
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (sshd @ Nov 26 2004, 06:09 AM)2. Neithe...   Nov 26 2004, 14:40
|- - jcoalson   this table is nice, good to finally have a sticky ...   Nov 28 2004, 11:51
|- - sshd   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Nov 28 2004, 11:51 AM)QUOTE...   Nov 28 2004, 16:16
|- - sehested   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Nov 28 2004, 02:51 AM)for t...   Nov 28 2004, 17:13
- - BoraBora   Another lossless comparison (in french, but the ta...   Nov 26 2004, 09:30
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (kotrtim @ Nov 26 2004, 02:04 AM)I...   Nov 26 2004, 13:12
- - Garf   <zealot> I see no reason to put very fast d...   Nov 26 2004, 13:39
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Garf @ Nov 26 2004, 09:39 AM)<zealo...   Nov 26 2004, 13:53
- - kurtnoise   Some notes about RALF : I made some quick tests w...   Nov 26 2004, 14:44
- - guruboolez   I forgot: nice initiative Roberto. Two comments: ...   Nov 26 2004, 14:44
- - kotrtim   according to the player itself (Itunes n Real) App...   Nov 26 2004, 15:28
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Nov 26 2004, 10:40 AM)I...   Nov 26 2004, 18:36
|- - HansHeijden   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 26 2004, 06:36 PM)Since...   Nov 26 2004, 20:17
- - guruboolez   Another suggestion: what about "adaptability...   Nov 26 2004, 18:52
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Nov 26 2004, 02:52 PM)Som...   Nov 26 2004, 19:13
- - guruboolez   I would say "none" rather than "bad...   Nov 26 2004, 19:17
- - kotrtim   QUOTE Haha, dude, you said yourself Real is very f...   Nov 27 2004, 04:48
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (HansHeijden @ Nov 26 2004, 04:17 PM)Ed...   Nov 27 2004, 21:33
- - Zurman   How about an overall notation system? 3 points for...   Nov 28 2004, 20:56
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (Zurman @ Nov 28 2004, 08:56 PM)How abo...   Nov 29 2004, 10:18
- - BoraBora   About OS support: I understand what it means, but ...   Nov 28 2004, 23:50
- - WaldoMonster   Nice work. I'm missing native ReplayGain in t...   Nov 28 2004, 23:52
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (WaldoMonster @ Nov 28 2004, 07:52 PM)I...   Nov 29 2004, 00:34
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Nov 28 2004, 07:51 AM)for t...   Nov 29 2004, 00:26
|- - Zurman   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 28 2004, 03:26 PM)QUOTE...   Nov 29 2004, 01:53
||- - dev0   QUOTE (Zurman @ Nov 29 2004, 01:53 AM)Just to...   Nov 29 2004, 06:33
|- - BoraBora   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 29 2004, 01:26 AM)For l...   Nov 29 2004, 09:20
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 28 2004, 06:26 PM)QUOTE...   Nov 30 2004, 06:20
- - Tang   Hi, Very nice THREAD thanks to Amorim and every co...   Nov 29 2004, 07:20
|- - music_man_mpc   QUOTE (Tang @ Nov 28 2004, 10:20 PM)Recently ...   Nov 29 2004, 08:57
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (music_man_mpc @ Nov 29 2004, 08:57 AM)...   Nov 29 2004, 10:40
|- - Tang   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Nov 29 2004, 01:40 AM)QUO...   Nov 30 2004, 04:35
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (dev0 @ Nov 29 2004, 02:33 AM)I don...   Nov 29 2004, 13:23
|- - guruboolez   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Nov 29 2004, 01:23 PM)Indee...   Nov 29 2004, 14:22
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Nov 29 2004, 10:22 AM)Is ...   Nov 29 2004, 14:29
- - guruboolez   You're right. I had in might asymetrical with ...   Nov 29 2004, 14:34
- - GeSomeone   RJAmorim, I think it would be a good idea to add v...   Dec 2 2004, 13:42
|- - Faelix   QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Dec 2 2004, 09:42 AM)Anoth...   Dec 2 2004, 14:12
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Dec 2 2004, 09:42 AM)I thi...   Dec 9 2004, 18:43
- - kurtnoise   For TTA : Encoding Speed : fast Decoding Speed : ...   Dec 9 2004, 19:21
|- - rjamorim   Excellent. Thank-you for the info. I just updates ...   Dec 9 2004, 19:45
|- - buzzy   Nice work. As some of the comments here suggest, ...   Dec 9 2004, 20:56
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (buzzy @ Dec 9 2004, 04:56 PM)As some o...   Dec 10 2004, 21:13
|- - buzzy   Sorry, the comment about hardware support was a re...   Dec 13 2004, 20:33
- - guruboolez   LA has both seeking and tagging functionality. I c...   Dec 9 2004, 21:08
- - Mindaxiz   EDIT: --post deleted-- Looks like TTA has been ...   Dec 9 2004, 22:44
- - Mindaxiz   Rjamorim, you either edited the table super fast o...   Dec 9 2004, 23:52
- - evereux   This spreadsheet is an excellent reference, thanks...   Dec 10 2004, 15:36
- - guruboolez   very slow seeking could be highly irritating. I ne...   Dec 10 2004, 15:48
- - rjamorim   Hello. I just added a new table design, and would ...   Dec 10 2004, 16:14
- - rjamorim   I just edited the main post. Here are some comment...   Dec 10 2004, 16:32
- - rjamorim   Since I was already playing with my test streams, ...   Dec 10 2004, 17:06
- - roweezy   WMAL / WMA Lossless 9.1 DOES support 24bit / 24-b...   Jan 1 2005, 04:23
- - Zurman   I think there's a mistak in the table : Monkey...   Jan 3 2005, 19:37
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Zurman @ Jan 3 2005, 03:37 PM)I think ...   Jan 3 2005, 19:48
|- - Zurman   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jan 3 2005, 10:48 AM)QUOTE ...   Jan 3 2005, 20:08
- - Erich w/ an h   are the percentages in the original post based on ...   Jan 10 2005, 10:22
- - Skymmer   Here is another suggestion and test... As you know...   Jan 22 2005, 04:36
|- - rjamorim   Thanks for that test you did. I am considering add...   Jan 24 2005, 00:05
- - jcoalson   even better would be if a codec could store all AI...   Jan 22 2005, 06:04
- - Skymmer   Quite agree but I'm pretty sure that formats w...   Jan 22 2005, 06:34
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Jan 22 2005, 12:34 AM)Quite ...   Jan 23 2005, 18:56
- - Skymmer   OK. Again 10 seconds brown noise but without any m...   Jan 22 2005, 07:22
- - Skymmer   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Jan 23 2005, 08:56 PM)anywa...   Jan 23 2005, 19:53
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Jan 23 2005, 01:53 PM)QUOTE ...   Jan 24 2005, 01:13
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Jan 23 2005, 10:13 PM)my co...   Jan 24 2005, 01:28
|- - kjoonlee   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Jan 24 2005, 09:13 AM)2. wh...   Jan 24 2005, 03:01
- - Skymmer   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jan 24 2005, 02:05 AM)Thank...   Jan 24 2005, 02:11
|- - jcoalson   QUOTE (Skymmer @ Jan 23 2005, 08:11 PM)QUOTE ...   Jan 24 2005, 08:57
- - adlai   my take as a dumb end-user. MAC is the best. Best...   Jan 24 2005, 02:35
|- - Skymmer   QUOTE (adlai @ Jan 24 2005, 04:35 AM)MAC is t...   Jan 24 2005, 02:57
|- - buzzy   QUOTE (adlai @ Jan 23 2005, 08:35 PM)MAC is t...   Feb 12 2005, 18:27
|- - johnsonlam   To be short: Everyone who create a free loseless c...   Feb 12 2005, 18:48
- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (jcoalson @ Jan 24 2005, 07:57 AM)QUOTE...   Jan 24 2005, 09:38
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Jan 24 2005, 06:38 AM...   Jan 24 2005, 14:52
- - m0rbidini   Is it difficult to guarantee full reconstruction o...   Jan 24 2005, 10:23
- - Synthetic Soul   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Jan 24 2005, 01:52 PM)No fl...   Jan 24 2005, 20:43
- - Mindaxiz   QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Jan 24 2005, 02:43 PM...   Jan 24 2005, 21:11
|- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Mindaxiz @ Jan 24 2005, 06:11 PM)I am ...   Jan 24 2005, 23:33
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (Erich w/ an h @ Jan 10 2005, 07:22 AM)...   Feb 2 2005, 04:54
- - guruboolez   I've selected one mono album for my classical ...   Feb 3 2005, 08:19
- - p0wder   I recently converted from FLAC to Wavpack in order...   Feb 3 2005, 10:10
|- - Polar   QUOTE (p0wder @ Feb 3 2005, 09:10 UTC)I'm...   Feb 3 2005, 12:39
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (guruboolez @ Feb 3 2005, 05:19 AM)I...   Feb 3 2005, 15:30
- - rutra80   How about adding to the "Tagging" row th...   Feb 8 2005, 20:35
- - WaldoMonster   Adding "PIPE support" to the table would...   Feb 11 2005, 15:46
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (rutra80 @ Feb 8 2005, 05:35 PM)How abo...   Feb 11 2005, 19:31
|- - WaldoMonster   QUOTE (rjamorim @ Feb 11 2005, 10:31 PM)Well,...   Feb 11 2005, 22:43
- - rjamorim   QUOTE (buzzy @ Feb 12 2005, 03:27 PM)An examp...   Feb 12 2005, 23:17
- - johnsonlam   QUOTE One sentence: competition is good. I agree....   Feb 13 2005, 17:32
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