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Burrrn 1.13 released, new version of the Audio CD burner
tcgabor
post Jun 27 2005, 14:52
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Hello Gambit!

Just a minor remark! I'm very picky about the media I use, so most of the time I use Taiyo Yuden coated discs, or Black Memorex or Black Traxdata (all have different coats) and one thing... I don't really know how many things add up to a cd sounding as it does (I guess everything...) but I experinced VERY GOOD SOUNDING results with ordinary Memorex (CMC Magnetics) media even with 2nd copies (the disc was copied from a copy) borderig on the sound quality of EAC burns, if not even better at times. Congratulations! I guess not too many people have achieved such results. Keep up the good work! One more thing: Does it make a difference if use SPTI or ASPI under Win2k or XP? Still: I don't really know much about the replaygain functions so I prefer to leave all the fields blank. I have just burnt a cd and realized that Dither was turned (by default - with medium noise shaping) on in ReplayGain functions. I burned cds with it turned on before now I have switched it off. Is it something worthy of note? - Sorry, maybe stupid question, or I should have read the posts or the documentation... CUESheet editor is great, too.

Thanks

Gabor

U.i.: If all the goodies you've talked about will be included in the next version...Man, it will beat every audio cd burning software out there - possibly not EAC, but anyway....
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Digga
post Jun 27 2005, 15:21
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QUOTE (tcgabor @ Jun 27 2005, 02:52 PM)
I'm very picky about the media I use, so most of the time I use Taiyo Yuden coated discs, or Black Memorex or Black Traxdata (all have different coats) and one thing... I don't really know how many things add up to a cd sounding as it does (I guess everything...) but I experinced VERY GOOD SOUNDING results with ordinary Memorex (CMC Magnetics) media even with 2nd copies (the disc was copied from a copy) borderig on the sound quality of EAC burns, if not even better at times
*scratching the disk with a sharp knive on the outer region has produced the best sound for me so far. the sound is more crispy and the slight crackling adds up to your listening pleasure. be carefull to only do this during full moon though, otherwise the disk will sound worse.*
QUOTE
I don't really know much about the replaygain functions so I prefer to leave all the fields blank. I have just burnt a cd and realized that Dither was turned (by default - with medium noise shaping) on in ReplayGain functions. I burned cds with it turned on before now I have switched it off. Is it something worthy of note? - Sorry, maybe stupid question, or I should have read the posts or the documentation
http://replaygain.org/


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dreamliner77
post Jun 27 2005, 15:26
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I still like to throw my discs in the dishwasher. laugh.gif


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tcgabor
post Jun 27 2005, 15:56
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No offence Digga, dreamliner77, but I have been through conversations like this and have no intention to continue them here, so would you mind stopping being ironic and sarcastic. It's not what I think of good recorded sound that matters but what I wanted to say about this proggie, my experince, regardless of what you think of so-called audiophile loonies, believe me, I'm not one of them, just wanted to say that whatever your recording needs you should be picky of the media you use, too.
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Digga
post Jun 27 2005, 16:03
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QUOTE (tcgabor @ Jun 27 2005, 03:56 PM)
No offence Digga, dreamliner77, but I have been through conversations like this and have no intention to continue them here, so would you mind stopping being ironic and sarcastic. It's not what I think of good recorded sound that matters but what I wanted to say about this proggie, my experince, regardless of what you think of so-called audiophile loonies, believe me, I'm not one of them, just wanted to say that whatever your recording needs you should be picky of the media you use, too.
well, if you post something it's only natural that others will comment on it wink.gif anyway, no offence meant here either.
it seems that we agree on media beeing important. but I can only see that it is important in terms of durability and life (i.e. how soon the disk is going to die if handled well). I never noticed a difference in soundquality with the brands I use and I find it highly unlikely for others to notice such things appart from placebo.
and besides have a look at the TOS sometimes.

This post has been edited by Digga: Jun 27 2005, 16:04


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tcgabor
post Jun 27 2005, 19:42
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Thanks for pointing out these principles (TOS) to me to 'separate fact from fiction' :-)
However, I seriously think there is a very big difference between non-sense audiophile concerns and audible differences in sound (which I do believe exist!)...otherwise I think the guidelines are just fine and you have a point there...

Cheers

This post has been edited by tcgabor: Jun 27 2005, 19:43
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jaybeee
post Jun 27 2005, 20:07
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If you could do some listening tests with different types of blank CDs and upload your results for all to see we'd be most grateful. If you actually hear a diff between different CDRs then that would be useful for all to know. However, I would be very surprised if you'll hear a difference.


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tcgabor
post Jun 27 2005, 20:08
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Anyway, still not sure about replaygain. If the only thing it does is to equalize track volumes (compared to each other if I get it right, not within the track itself), which I usually avoid then thanks, it's not for me! If it does something else, what then? Is it used primarily for mp3 replay (playback after encoding), or is it more complex than that? Help me with that, please!

Thanks in advance
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tcgabor
post Jun 27 2005, 20:27
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QUOTE (jaybeee @ Jun 27 2005, 11:07 AM)
If you could do some listening tests with different types of blank CDs and upload your results for all to see we'd be most grateful.  If you actually hear a diff between different CDRs then that would be useful for all to know.  However, I would be very surprised if you'll hear a difference.
*

Sorry pal, I don't really know what you mean, besides I'm not very good at stuff like that (analysing results and posting them). So, how can I post my results if what you hear can be utterly subjective, nobody can doubt that. And if I write down what I heard while listening to different kinds of media would provoke nothing but loud laughter from your part to say the least. It needs some explanation: I think and believe that what you actually hear is not what you measure with different test programs. That is why posting something that cannot be justified only experinced on a highly subjective basis is not what would seem a good enough evidence. What you mean maybe is to post my measured results which guarantee nothing about what you hear only what can be measured. For the sake of avoiding subjective off-the-forum-principles posts, I suggest that we take my note about choosing media and all a side-track which has nothing to do with the basic inspiration for my posting. If, however, I still have questions about Burrrn, I will continue to ask them here.

G
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Madrigal
post Jun 27 2005, 21:20
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Just to go public with something I contacted Gambit about by e-mail, I will stop using Nero for audio burning and switch to Burrrn, just as soon as Burrn can handle the adjustment and/or elimination of the gap between tracks.

At that point I would also seriously consider donating.

Regards,
Madrigal
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jaybeee
post Jun 27 2005, 21:50
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QUOTE (tcgabor @ Jun 27 2005, 08:27 PM)
Sorry pal, I don't really know what you mean, besides I'm not very good at stuff like that (analysing results and posting them). So, how can I post my results if what you hear can be utterly subjective, nobody can doubt that. And if I write down what I heard while listening to different kinds of media would provoke nothing but loud laughter from your part to say the least. It needs some explanation: I think and believe that what you actually hear is not what you measure with different test programs. That is why posting something that cannot be justified only experinced on a highly subjective basis is not what would seem a good enough evidence. What you mean maybe is to post my measured results which guarantee nothing about what you hear only what can be measured.  For the sake of avoiding subjective off-the-forum-principles posts, I suggest that we take my note about choosing media and all a side-track which has nothing to do with the basic inspiration for my posting. If, however, I still have questions about Burrrn, I will continue to ask them here.

G
*

Ok pal.

Read these:
What is an audio blind test?
and
ABX defined via HA.org wiki

I certainly do not want this thread to go off it's topic any more than it has, so I will not post any more about ABX etc here. If you have any other questions / concerns etc about testing of audio post a new thread and I'm sure the HA.org community will be more than willing to help.


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Triza
post Jun 27 2005, 22:42
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QUOTE (tcgabor @ Jun 27 2005, 11:27 AM)
QUOTE (jaybeee @ Jun 27 2005, 11:07 AM)
If you could do some listening tests with different types of blank CDs and upload your results for all to see we'd be most grateful.  If you actually hear a diff between different CDRs then that would be useful for all to know.  However, I would be very surprised if you'll hear a difference.
*

Sorry pal, I don't really know what you mean, besides I'm not very good at stuff like that (analysing results and posting them). So, how can I post my results if what you hear can be utterly subjective, nobody can doubt that. And if I write down what I heard while listening to different kinds of media would provoke nothing but loud laughter from your part to say the least. It needs some explanation: I think and believe that what you actually hear is not what you measure with different test programs. That is why posting something that cannot be justified only experinced on a highly subjective basis is not what would seem a good enough evidence. What you mean maybe is to post my measured results which guarantee nothing about what you hear only what can be measured. For the sake of avoiding subjective off-the-forum-principles posts, I suggest that we take my note about choosing media and all a side-track which has nothing to do with the basic inspiration for my posting. If, however, I still have questions about Burrrn, I will continue to ask them here.

G
*



Gabor,

Good conclusion. Imagine that everybody would post untestable nonsense. This would turn this site as useless as any other hifi sites, which are full of bull***t and useless statements. This is why this site is different. If you cannot back up your claims, which are indeed laughable because if I rip those CD-s they become bit identical, then you probably want to keep quiet about them.

Triza

This post has been edited by Triza: Jun 27 2005, 22:46
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tcgabor
post Jun 28 2005, 08:04
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Hey!

jaybee thanks for the support and the links I haven't read them yet but they may provide very useful. Triza, I completely agree with your point, although I myself know a couple of guys who are like this. I don't like it when they are offensive about what they think is obvious. You have to experince things for yourself. That's the big idea - for me at least!

G
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tcgabor
post Jun 28 2005, 08:07
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Madrigal, I have had no problems with gaps using Burrrn, as one of the guys pointed it out in the forum the program doesn't append 2-second gaps even when not burning from a cue-sheet.
Hav you produced cds with gaps on them using Burrrn?

G
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atramhasis
post Jun 28 2005, 18:20
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QUOTE (Gambit @ Jul 6 2004, 02:26 AM)
Just wanted to let you know that write offset corrected writing will be available in the next version
*


What about this function? Is it implemented? I can't find an option for it in burrrn 1.13.
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Gambit
post Jun 28 2005, 18:39
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QUOTE (atramhasis @ Jun 28 2005, 06:20 PM)
QUOTE (Gambit @ Jul 6 2004, 02:26 AM)
Just wanted to let you know that write offset corrected writing will be available in the next version
*


What about this function? Is it implemented? I can't find an option for it in burrrn 1.13.
*


Holy thread resurrection Batman! I have moved your post to this thread, no need to bump a one year old topic.

Anyway, as I explained in my posts, that function had to be postponed. It will be in the next version, but donít ask me when that will be. My brain is not working in this damn hot weather. tongue.gif


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Madrigal
post Jun 29 2005, 02:46
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QUOTE (tcgabor @ Jun 28 2005, 02:07 AM)
Madrigal, I have had no problems with gaps using Burrrn, as one of the guys pointed it out in the forum the program doesn't append 2-second gaps even when not burning from a cue-sheet.
Hav you produced cds with gaps on them using Burrrn?

Thank you VERY much for posting this !

No, I have not produced CD's with gaps using Burrrn. I had been so used to Nero's 2-second gap as the default, that it never even occurred to me that Burrrn's default mode might be no gap, and for some reason I had never actually checked to find out.

But you are right. Today I checked a CD I recently made for my wife using Burrrn, and indeed there are no gaps between the tracks.

This opens up several new possibilities for me, and once again I thank you for posting.

Regards,
Madrigal
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Gambit
post Jun 29 2005, 02:51
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Meh, this just shows that I really need to write a proper documentation or FAQ.


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Digga
post Jun 29 2005, 04:27
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QUOTE (Gambit @ Jun 29 2005, 02:51 AM)
Meh, this just shows that I really need to write a proper documentation or FAQ.
if you want me to, I would gladly volunteer to start writeing a basic FAQ which covers some questions I could think of.
to make the pretty little pagessss even more precioussss wink.gif


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Digga
post Jun 29 2005, 05:23
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hrmpf, it's 5:45 in the moring and I'm drunk and what else not listening to DeadRinger...
so before getting some sleep I might aswell present my (very basic) atempts here now smile.gif

FAQ

Q: do I have to mess with any of the settings prior to using Burrrn?
A: most of the settings are fine out of the box for most users. the options should be pretty much forward and uderstabdable.

Q: what is this ReplayGain stuff I see there?
A: in short ReplayGain is a method to make individual songs sound equally loud (trackgain) or tracks on an album get closer to a choosen value (albumgain). the default value is 89dB. for further question see http://replaygain.org/

Q: I want to create an audio CD. how do I do that?
A: just drag 'n drop the files you want to burn into the tracklist window or use the add button. hit the Burrrn button if ready and wait for the CD to finish.

Q: I want to burn my MP3s, FLACSs etc on CD. is Burrrn the right tool for me?
A: most probably yes. Burrrn is able to decode most common codecs out there, including MP3, ogg Vorbis, AAC and most lossless formats.

Q: is Burrrn able write CD text?
A: yes. that way you can see artist and track information on you CD player's display.

Q: why should I use Burrrn and not some other programm to burn my CDs?
A: you don't have to. however Burrrn is very lightwight, supports many audio codecs, is simple to use yet powerfull and best of all: it's free!
it can't make you see into the future or wash your car but it does what it should very good: to burn audio CDs.


<if needed: step by step tutorial how to burrn a CD and how to set up Burrrn, explaining all the options.>

someone else would have to cover the CUEsheet editor.


hope that helps, it's at least a beginning.


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Gambit
post Jun 29 2005, 05:24
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QUOTE (Digga @ Jun 29 2005, 04:27 AM)
QUOTE (Gambit @ Jun 29 2005, 02:51 AM)
Meh, this just shows that I really need to write a proper documentation or FAQ.
if you want me to, I would gladly volunteer to start writeing a basic FAQ which covers some questions I could think of.
to make the pretty little pagessss even more precioussss wink.gif
*



Oh my god, sure! You are most welcome. I will... eh... give you... eh... I can send you a pic of me where I perform the happy dance. In return, I'm sure that will motivate you. wink.gif

Edit: Digga works at the speed of light. I see the pic will not be necessary. tongue.gif

Edit2: Oh my, drunk at 5:45 on a wednesday. Wow, even I could learn from that... biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Gambit: Jun 29 2005, 05:29


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Digga
post Jun 29 2005, 05:28
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QUOTE (Gambit @ Jun 29 2005, 05:24 AM)
Oh my god, sure! You are most welcome. I will... eh... give you... eh... I can send you a pic of me where I perform the happy dance. In return, I'm sure that will motivate you. wink.gif
yay, the happy dance! I will be very very blue if I don't get it, so you better start the dance wink.gif
edit:
QUOTE
Edit: Digga works at the speed of light. I see the pic will not be necessary
first you made me write this stressing article and now you want to rob me off my pic? ohmy.gif
edit2:
QUOTE
Edit2: Oh my, drunk at 5:45 on a wednesday. Wow, even I could learn from that... biggrin.gif
it's 'uni night' here every wednesday and I have passed an important examn. plus I saw a red car today. all very good reasons to have some fun smile.gif

This post has been edited by Digga: Jun 29 2005, 05:34


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Gambit
post Jun 29 2005, 05:39
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QUOTE (Digga @ Jun 29 2005, 05:28 AM)
QUOTE (Gambit @ Jun 29 2005, 05:24 AM)
Oh my god, sure! You are most welcome. I will... eh... give you... eh... I can send you a pic of me where I perform the happy dance. In return, I'm sure that will motivate you. wink.gif
yay, the happy dance! I will be very very blue if I don't get it, so you better start the dance wink.gif
edit:
QUOTE
Edit: Digga works at the speed of light. I see the pic will not be necessary
first you made me write this stressing article and now you want to rob me off my pic? ohmy.gif
edit2:
QUOTE
Edit2: Oh my, drunk at 5:45 on a wednesday. Wow, even I could learn from that... biggrin.gif
it's 'uni night' here every wednesday and I have passed an important examn. plus I saw a red car today. all very good reasons to have some fun smile.gif
*


OK, OK, you deserve it. You know what? I'll be extra generous and I even show you a video. It's archived material from one certain "party". There must have been a lot of red cars outside that night. wink.gif
I won't embarrass myself in front of the whole HA, so the link is in your PM. Enjoy. smile.gif


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Digga
post Jun 29 2005, 05:45
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QUOTE (Gambit @ Jun 29 2005, 05:39 AM)
OK, OK, you deserve it. You know what? I'll be extra generous and I even show you a video. It's archived material from one certain "party". There must have been a lot of red cars outside that night. wink.gif
I won't embarrass myself in front of the whole HA, so the link is in your PM. Enjoy. smile.gif
heh, very generous of you wink.gif smile.gif
if you need a more detailed runtrough(on burrn that is) (though it's really very much straight foreward) let me know.
sleep, sweet sleep.


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Gambit
post Jul 9 2005, 10:53
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There is a new beta that adds support for embedded cuesheets in wavpack, ape and flac:
http://www.burrrn.net/stuff/Burrrn_1.14beta.rar


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