iRiver iFP-700/800 Series, Are they any good? Options

[AlexanderTG]

Hello

I have been thinking about getting a portable mp3 player for a long time now, but can never seem to find the perfect match for myself. After reading a lot of reviews, I think that the iRiver iFP-700/800 Series is perfect for me!

However, Today I came across a site which has changed my mind. I was so close to getting this player. On this site it said that the iFP700/800 Series are not recognised as portable drives on your computer when plugged in unless you install the included drivers?

Unlike most of its competitors, the iFP-890 is not recognized as an external storage unit when connected to a computer

I am hoping this matter has been resolved through firmware upgrades, but have not been able to find this information anywhere. This is why I am asking this question here.

Is it true that you have to install software to get your computer to recognise this mp3 player. If it is true, has the matter been resolved yet through firmware upgrades?

Thanks

Edit: Typos, Quoted tomshardware.com

This post has been edited by AlexanderTG: Apr 24 2005, 13:10

[AlexanderTG]

Sorry to bother the people of HA. It looks like this problem has already been fixed by iRiver through firmware upgrades!

UMS Update for iFP-700 Series
UMS Update for iFP-800 Series

I'm ordering this mp3 player now!

[AlexanderTG]

Before I do go out and buy this. Can someone please answer the following questions if its not too much trouble!

1. Can this play standard LAME mp3 vbr files simply by dragging them into the portable drive icon in windows explorer after upgrading the firmware of the player? I do not want to use the software supplied.
2. Can you pause and resume the tracks?
3. Can you seek though the tracks?
4. Does it support gapless playback?
5. Copyright Protection System: Yes - What does that mean?
6. Are there any other problems which might stop me from buying this player?

Thanks again!

Edit: Added more questions

This post has been edited by AlexanderTG: Apr 24 2005, 13:39

[Sebastian Mares]

Before I do go out and buy this.  Can someone please answer the following questions if its not too much trouble!

1. Can this play standard LAME mp3 vbr files simply by dragging them into the portable drive icon in windows explorer after upgrading the firmware of the player?  I do not want to use the software supplied.
2. Can you pause and resume the tracks?
3. Can you seek though the tracks?
4. Does it support gapless playback?
5. Copyright Protection System: Yes - What does that mean?
6. Are there any other problems which might stop me from buying this player?

Thanks again!

Edit: Added more questions

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No
5. Supports WMAs with DRM
6. Don't think so

The information above is based on a friend's device.

[AlexanderTG]

Thanks for the quick reply Sebastian Mares. I have no more excuses not to buy this player. Now all I have to do is find the best price in the UK.

Thanks for the info.

[Gecko]

There's the UMS (USB Mass Storage) firmware. However transfers from and to the player are terribly slow. About 500kb/s on my PC. The "Manager" firmware which forces you to use a specialized application is much faster. edit: I just transferred 300mb in a little less than 3 minutes which would equate to roughly 1700kb/s end edit

The UMS firmware doesn't allow you to record with more than 96kb/s.
The Manager firmware doesn't allow you to download music from your player back to your PC.

On my system I've had trouble getting recorded stuff from the player to the PC and also had sporadic disconnects. Might be unrelated to the player.

This post has been edited by Gecko: Apr 24 2005, 14:22

[DonP]

There's the UMS (USB Mass Storage) firmware. However transfers from and to the player are terribly slow. About 500kb/s on my PC. The "Manager" firmware which forces you to use a specialized application is much faster.

I haven't used the UMS firmware, but I would guess the difference is in the firmware having to manage a file system (probably FAT) where on the original firmware the synch manager can make whatever access database is needed on the host computer and shove it all in with no big computation needed by the processor on the player.

One other advantage to the magager is you can use it to set up all the FM presets with frequency and station names.

THe IFP I have used is my kid's, and not extended use. I haven't figured out how to navigate by album (vs scrolling through individual tracks until I reach the desired album). Maybe that is easier with UMS firmware if you are already navigating directories?

[AlexanderTG]

Gecko - Have you tried this?

Supplied software works well, but one annoying limitation is that although you can transfer mp3's from PC to player, you cannot copy mp3's from player to PC because of copyright limitations. However you can use the FM tuner to record, say copyrighted material from Radio 1, copy to PC and the software will convert from *.rec format to *.mp3 for you! Bizzare!

DonP - I have read some reviews that the navigation does have a learning curve, but once you get used to it, its cool!

On the other hand, navigation among the files stored is fairly easy. It's all done from a directional button that makes it possible to change the directory (up to eight levels of sub-directory are permitted), to display tune titles and create playlists (just one list at a time, though, because the iFP-890 does not accept lists of the WinAmp M3U type). Numerous other play options are available (random, repeat, extract, etc.) and each can be applied to a specific set of files or a specific directory.

The lowest price I can find in the uk is £150. I have found it on ebay for £99 but that guy wants £30+ for delivery!

Again, thanks for all the info and help.

This post has been edited by AlexanderTG: Apr 24 2005, 17:57

[Danimal]

Before I do go out and buy this.  Can someone please answer the following questions if its not too much trouble!

1. Can this play standard LAME mp3 vbr files simply by dragging them into the portable drive icon in windows explorer after upgrading the firmware of the player?  I do not want to use the software supplied.
2. Can you pause and resume the tracks?
3. Can you seek though the tracks?
4. Does it support gapless playback?
5. Copyright Protection System: Yes - What does that mean?
6. Are there any other problems which might stop me from buying this player?

Thanks again!

Edit: Added more questions

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. No
5. Supports WMAs with DRM
6. Don't think so

The information above is based on a friend's device.

Two thoughts I've had with my 799.

On no. 5, it supports WMAs with DRM but you must use WMP10 to put these files on the player. Just dragging and dropping will not put the DRM license file on the player and it will not play.

Two other issues. Occasionally if I am listening to a vbr mp3 that has ID3v2 tags in it, it will cause the player to literally come to a screeching halt. Several loud screeching noises, then the player restarts. Other users at www.misticriver.net have reported the same thing. Id3v1 tags do not cause this problem; I did not study it in depth enough to try to figure out whether it was caused by files at certain bitrates or whatever.

The other issue is only an issue if you are a Vorbis user. It will not play a file whose average bitrate is less than 96 or above 224. Also, on Vorbis playback, there is an audible click or pop in between each track that is not there using mp3 files (that were encoded from the same flac files I used to encode a couple of test Vorbis files).

[AlexanderTG]

Danimal - Thanks for your reply!

Luckely all those points do not apply to me as I dont use WMA, foobar2000 makes it easy to convert flac files to mp3 with ID3v1 tags, and I am not planning on using Ogg Vorbis (although I do like Ogg Vorbis), I have read that the iFP-700/800 series battery lasts longer with mp3 files!

The only drawback is the fact that the iFP-700/800 series mp3 players do not play gapless mp3 files. This is also not a problem for me as I dont normally listen to tracks which blend into the next track.

I've seen the player in the UK for £119.99 Including VAT and Delivery! I don't think that can be beaten!

Edit: Added point about gapless playback, Best price

This post has been edited by AlexanderTG: Apr 24 2005, 18:42

[AlexanderTG]

I know I said "at the beginning of this thread", that I am going to go and buy it now! But before I do, does anyone know of an even better mp3 player which can do everything the iFP-700/800 Series can but better. Must be the same size if not smaller, and does not have any of the problems that the iRiver has.

Problems:
1. Can only record at 96kb with firmware update.
2. Without firmware update it can not be used as a removable drive
3. Slows does player to pc transfer if firmware updated.
4. Tag problems
5. No Gapless playback
6. Tries to make it difficult to copy files back to your computer
7. Limited ogg vorbis support
8. Difficult navigation
9. No Build In USB Port (like iPod Shuffle)
10. And any other problems that you may know of

Quick question. It does let you copy normal document/data files back and forth doesn't it?

Thanks for any added info.

Edit: Added problem list

This post has been edited by AlexanderTG: Apr 24 2005, 18:51

[Sebastian Mares]

I know I said "at the beginning of this thread", that I am going to go and buy it now!  But before I do, does anyone know of an even better mp3 player which can do everything the iFP-700/800 Series can but better.  Must be the same size if not smaller, and does not have any of the problems that the iRiver has.

Problems:
1. Can only record at 96kb with firmware update.
2. Without firmware update it can not be used as a removable drive
3. Slows does player to pc transfer if firmware updated.
4. Tag problems
5. No Gapless playback
6. Tries to make it difficult to copy files back to your computer
7. Limited ogg vorbis support
8. Difficult navigation
9. No Build In USB Port (like iPod Shuffle)
10. And any other problems that you may know of

Quick question.  It does let you copy normal document/data files back and forth doesn't it?

Thanks for any added info.

Edit: Added problem list

You might want to look at the iAudio players built by Cowon.

[AlexanderTG]

I think the iAudio players are great players and maybe even better than the iFP 700/800 Series!

But there is always 1 big thing about all their players which puts me off!

iAudio U2 - No removable battery!
iAudio 5 - No joystick navigation
iAudio 3G - Very flimsy design

iFP-700/800 has removable battery, joystick navigation, non flimsy design.

So If the iAudio U2 had a removable battery, the iAudio 5 had joystick naviation, and the iAudio 3G was smaller and had a more solid design, I would put those players above the iFP-700/800 Series!

[antz]

I know I said "at the beginning of this thread", that I am going to go and buy it now!  But before I do, does anyone know of an even better mp3 player which can do everything the iFP-700/800 Series can but better.  Must be the same size if not smaller, and does not have any of the problems that the iRiver has.

Problems:
1. Can only record at 96kb with firmware update.
2. Without firmware update it can not be used as a removable drive
3. Slows does player to pc transfer if firmware updated.
4. Tag problems
5. No Gapless playback
6. Tries to make it difficult to copy files back to your computer
7. Limited ogg vorbis support
8. Difficult navigation
9. No Build In USB Port (like iPod Shuffle)
10. And any other problems that you may know of

Quick question.  It does let you copy normal document/data files back and forth doesn't it?

Thanks for any added info.

Edit: Added problem list

Half your questions have been answered, I know but....

I have an 899 and I've had no problems whatsoever - it's an excellent player that blows the competitors away in most respects, particularly regarding sound quality and flexibilty (you can set virtually any parameter you can think of)!

As regards using it as a removeable drive you can upgrade to the UMS firmware to make it a appear as a removeable drive but you have to install the Manager software initially to do it. Downsides to the UMS software are slower transfers (about 30% slower) and a capped recording limit of 96k for line-in, radio and voice. Advantages are that ANY files can be transferred either way between player and PC. Manager software WILL let you transfer non-music files either way (this includes any recorded files). If you rename MP3 file extensions to .REC before you put them on the player you can transfer them off it and they will play fine.

By the way there's no problem with swapping between Manager and UMS software and I often do, but be aware that doing so re-formats the memory so ALL files are lost!

The player HATES ID3V2 tags so don't use them! Yes it does support resumes so you can go back to exactly where you left off, and yes you can seek through tracks (at 1x, 2x, 4x or 6x normal speed).

Gapless isn't supported but personally I find the gaps are extremely short and I hardly notice them. OGG files play a bit quieter too for some reason, apart from the restrictions in bit-rate and higher battery consumption.

Navigation difficult? Says who? It's very easy actually!

Battery life is excellent and it works quite happily off rechargeables (I get upwards of 25hrs from a 2300mAh NiMh).

Final thing: price....I just recently got the 899 for £143 and I've seen the 890 for about £90 including VAT and delivery - Try 4Waysolutions.com, it's where mine came from and they were highly competitive and did free next-day delievery (I have no connection with them, I should add).

Hope that lot helps!

[AlexanderTG]

antz - Thanks for clearing a few things up! That info was very helpful. I know the iFP-700 Series has or had a problem with white noise! Am I right in assuming that this problem has been fixed. Does the iFP-800 Series have this problem?

[AlexanderTG]

Where can I get a mini usb port like this?

[DonP]

I've seen the player in the UK for £119.99 Including VAT and Delivery!  I don't think that can be beaten!

Edit: Added point about gapless playback, Best price

I just looked on amazon-UK and they have the iriver 899 (1GB!) for 119 pounds.
the 790 (256 mB) is 74.99.

I can't think of another brand that meets your desires (UMS, removeable standard battery, size) better. Though it does require a USB cable, at least it is a very standard connector (same as my Palm and Neuros player, and mini-mouse) I got one with a thin cord and self-winding reel that pockets easily.

[antz]

antz - Thanks for clearing a few things up!  That info was very helpful.  I know the iFP-700 Series has or had a problem with white noise!  Am I right in assuming that this problem has been fixed.  Does the iFP-800 Series have this problem?

Your'e welcome. The white noise issue goes back to last year. The 700 and 800 series are identical by the way, other than in the style, so I think the 800 series had it too. I don't know if it was a batch issue but it seems later models didn't have the problem. White noise was only produced by the player when not playing anything so I don't think it was a big deal since you tend to play stuff rather than have it idle with power-off on a long setting!

Anyway, I can only say that any white noise on mine is absolutely inaudible even at max volume - not something I recommend because it's painfully loud when you play something at that level and forgot you left it on max! If you want hearing damage, iRiver can supply that for you!

Anything else you need to know, feel free to ask. I'd warn you that I'm a bit biased though, I think the iRiver players are well up on their competitors, even if there are some compromises in the firmware.

[antz]

Where can I get a mini usb port like this?

Don't know but it looks really neat! Not sure it'd work well on the iRiver flash players due to port-position, it'd leave the player at an awkward angle for a normal USB port orientation and might strain the connector on the player...

[AlexanderTG]

I would like to thank everyone in this thread for their knowledge of the iFP-700/800 players.

I will definately be getting this player. It will be the 1Gb version, either the 799 or the 899. Still not sure which one. I am leaning towards the 799 because I prefer its look.

Does the 799 have the usb port at the bottom? like the iAudio U2 in the image above showing the mini usb port?

Can someone please confirm the following?

OGG Vorbis (32 kbps ~ 500kbps)

If you go to this website and look at the section "audio formats supported", you will see that it says "OGG Vorbis (32 kbps ~ 500kbps). Has a firmware update fixed the limited Vorbis support?

Thanks again.

Edit: Ogg Vorbis comment addes.

This post has been edited by AlexanderTG: Apr 24 2005, 23:46

[rickshaw]

I would suggest you visit Misticriver as they have a large FAQ area that should answer any questions you have on this DAP.

rs

[AlexanderTG]

Thanks for the link!

[riggits]

I know I said "at the beginning of this thread", that I am going to go and buy it now!  But before I do, does anyone know of an even better mp3 player which can do everything the iFP-700/800 Series can but better.  Must be the same size if not smaller, and does not have any of the problems that the iRiver has.

Problems:
1. Can only record at 96kb with firmware update.
2. Without firmware update it can not be used as a removable drive
3. Slows does player to pc transfer if firmware updated.
4. Tag problems
5. No Gapless playback
6. Tries to make it difficult to copy files back to your computer
7. Limited ogg vorbis support
8. Difficult navigation
9. No Build In USB Port (like iPod Shuffle)
10. And any other problems that you may know of

Quick question.  It does let you copy normal document/data files back and forth doesn't it?

Thanks for any added info.

Edit: Added problem list

I replaced my iRiver iFP with the Samsung MT6x. It does everything the iRiver does, but better - no recording bitrate limit, no tag problems, no ogg problems, FAST transfer rate, and better battery life. Plus it's smaller.
Buy it @ Amazon, or check pricegrabber.com for best prices.

One more thing: it comes with that tiny USB connector

The iFP series looks awesome on the website, but once you've got the thing in your hand and start using it, I think you'll wish for the Samsung. I personally will not be going back to iRiver unless they change some fundamental priorities and make some seriously better products.

[riggits]

Before I do go out and buy this.  Can someone please answer the following questions if its not too much trouble!

1. Can this play standard LAME mp3 vbr files simply by dragging them into the portable drive icon in windows explorer after upgrading the firmware of the player?  I do not want to use the software supplied.
2. Can you pause and resume the tracks?
3. Can you seek though the tracks?
4. Does it support gapless playback?
5. Copyright Protection System: Yes - What does that mean?
6. Are there any other problems which might stop me from buying this player?

Thanks again!

Edit: Added more questions

4. NO
5. low bitrate recording with UMS. Also frustratingly slow transfer times.
6. Size+shape (player is actually shaped like the iFP-3xx series, has a triangular cross-section which the press photos don't show). Ogg support is awful, bitrates cannot drop below 96kbps or the file won't play. Line-in recording is quite deliberately crippled with UMS. Expensive (check Samsung YP-MT6 for price).

[Danimal]

Danimal - Thanks for your reply!

Luckely all those points do not apply to me as I dont use WMA, foobar2000 makes it easy to convert flac files to mp3 with ID3v1 tags, and I am not planning on using Ogg Vorbis (although I do like Ogg Vorbis), I have read that the iFP-700/800 series battery lasts longer with mp3 files!

The only drawback is the fact that the iFP-700/800 series mp3 players do not play gapless mp3 files.  This is also not a problem for me as I dont normally listen to tracks which blend into the next track.

I've seen the player in the UK for £119.99 Including VAT and Delivery!  I don't think that can be beaten!

Edit: Added point about gapless playback, Best price

What you have read is correct - battery life takes a hit with ogg vorbis.