Audio CD and DVD with PCM stereo., Does it make sense to buy both? Options

[rohangc]

Hi. I recently watched the "Eagles-Hell Freezes Over" DVD. I have never bought live CDs, let alone concert DVDs. However, I want this one badly. This particular DVD has audio in DTS and PCM stereo formats. My question is this:

If I buy the DVD with PCM stereo, is there any sense in buying the same thing on audio CD? Will the sound quality (not considering the mastering and other audio engineering processes) be any different on the two media considering that they both feature the same sound format, which is PCM stereo? I seriously think that if you have the DVD, it is at least as good as (if not better than) the audio CD. Am I right or wrong?

The same material is available on a 5.1 channel DTS audio-only disc. Is this format superior than the audio on the regular DVD that I am condering buying now?

In short, isn't buying the DVD with both PCM and DTS audio the same as buying the same thing in two different formats? Thanks.

[Digga]

If I buy the DVD with PCM stereo, is there any sense in buying the same thing on audio CD? Will the sound quality (not considering the mastering and other audio engineering processes) be any different on the two media considering that they both feature the same sound format, which is PCM stereo? I seriously think that if you have the DVD, it is at least as good as (if not better than) the audio CD. Am I right or wrong?

sounds right to me. go for the DVD.

The same material is available on a 5.1 channel DTS audio-only disc. Is this format superior than the audio on the regular DVD that I am condering buying now?

as DTS is a lossy format like AC3 it is thereticly of lesser quality.

[skamp]

I seriously think that if you have the DVD, it is at least as good as (if not better than) the audio CD. Am I right or wrong?

Even though I knew I would buy a hard copy of Lemon Jelly's latest album, '64-'95, I did buy it first online from AllOfMP3.com to check it out. I'm glad I did, because I found out that the CD version was badly saturated, like more and more releases since the 90's. One of the tracks has a replaygain of -12.61 dB. So instead of immediately ordering the CD as I had planned to, I looked around to see if it hadn't been released in an alternate format, such as vinyl. I found out about a video DVD with 5.1 DTS and AC3 tracks, plus an LPCM stereo track, and bought it right away.

I'm glad I did. Even though the LPCM track is just as saturated as the audio CD, it's at least just as good, if not better, the audio being sampled at 48kHz instead of 44.1kHz. More importantly, the multichannel tracks, are, as I expected, far from being as saturated (for comparison, the track in question has a replaygain of only -4.57 dB). For some reason, audio and video DVD's seem to be spared by the growing trend of pumping up the volume to its absolute maximum. I sense I'll be looking for these alternate formats more and more often.

Edit: to be fair, the audio quality of the album itself is quite poor. The samples seem to come from 64 kbps MP3's from the mid-90's, and the mixing sounds amateurish. No matter what format I choose for listening to that album, it always seems more or less like I'm listening to a bad lossy version. But my point remains valid. And also, the music itself is excellent

This post has been edited by skamp: May 11 2005, 23:23

[rohangc]

Hi. I have made up my mind to buy the DVD with the LPCM and DTS sound (as soon as I manage to put together the money, anyway ).
That being said, do you think there will be any difference in the sound quality of the DTS audio between the DVD with video and the one without video? Thanks

[skamp]

That being said, do you think there will be any difference in the sound quality of the DTS audio between the DVD with video and the one without video?

I don't know much about DTS CD's (or DTS at all for that matter), but I guess the only likely difference would be the bitrate: according to the DVD FAQ it's usually either 754.5 kbps or 1509.25 kbps for 5.1 content. On video DVD's it's usually 754.5 kbps, and I don't know about DTS CD's. So without the detailed specs of both releases, I can't tell. DTS CD's being dedicated to audio, I would assume that they are encoded at the higher bitrate, since it is close enough to the bitrate of regular audio CD's (1,411.2 kbps). You probably won't be able to tell the difference between the two by just listening to it anyway. But I agree, having the higher bitrate provides at least a peace of mind
You could go to a store and ask a vendor about it. And if he doesn't know, ask if you can exchange your purchase for the other release.

[precisionist]

@skamp:
All of your screenshots look like hopelessly clipressed. If you got a lower replaygain for the multitrack, it's probably just because the average volume is lower, but the peak to average difference is still the same. Look at those multitrack screenshots, they're all thouroughly clipressed. What the hell is this one in the middle (the fourth from the top), is it audio ??? It even doesn't have any vallys.
Sad to say that music DVDs don't offer a chance to fool the record industry and to circumvent the loudness war in any way.

[skamp]

All of your screenshots look like hopelessly clipressed. If you got a lower replaygain for the multitrack, it's probably just because the average volume is lower, but the peak to average difference is still the same. Look at those multitrack screenshots, they're all thouroughly clipressed.

Indeed. It does sound bad.

What the hell is this one in the middle (the fourth from the top), is it audio ??? It even doesn't have any vallys.

It's the bass (LFP) as far as I can tell.

Sad to say that music DVDs don't offer a chance to fool the record industry and to circumvent the loudness war in any way.

I can't say. I only own two audio DVD's and this musical DVD. The audio DVD's are fine. This musical DVD is bad, but so is the album (audio-wise). It would be nice to have more feedback from other HA members about that.

[precisionist]

Sad to say that music DVDs don't offer a chance to fool the record industry and to circumvent the loudness war in any way.

I can't say. I only own two audio DVD's and this musical DVD. The audio DVD's are fine. This musical DVD is bad, but so is the album (audio-wise). It would be nice to have more feedback from other HA members about that.

I wasn't referring to audio DVDs but to the audio of video DVDs or to the additional only-audio tracks of video DVDs. (What is this LPCM (the L, especially) ?)
It is not enough if only some CDs/audio DVDs/video DVDs or whatever are well-mastered. When buying it in a shop, you can't test. I know at least one shop where they can only be returned if they are still sealed, thus you also can't test at home.

[jaybeee]

(What is this LPCM (the L, especially) ?)

Linear - LPCM

[DonP]

DTS CD's being dedicated to audio, I would assume that they are encoded at the higher bitrate, since it is close enough to the bitrate of regular audio CD's (1,411.2 kbps). You probably won't be able to tell the difference between the two by just listening to it anyway. But I agree, having the higher bitrate provides at least a peace of mind

Consider that DTS cd's can play on any CD player with digital output. The CD player doesn't "know" that it isn't playing a regular CD, so the bitrate will be the same as a CD, or ~ 1.4 megabits/sec, unless the whole DTS stream fits on 1 channel.. in that case half.