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"ripping" LP's, how?
Woodinville
post Sep 15 2005, 20:35
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( I think this is the right forum, I'm trying, at least, to get this right. )

Like some other old folks here, I have a lot of LP's that I would like to move over to my computer.

There are several issues.
First, it has to happen in real time, no faster. This is quite profoundly annoying.
Second, I'd like to be able to get things like album art, etc, by entering the catalog number or something like that, or searching CD databases, perhaps, for the info, although often tracks are different, moved, or present/missing.
Third, I'd like to process the stuff on the fly, using the sound card's analog level adjustment to keep me in a decent dynamic range, but providing some space for overloads.
Fourth, I'd like to be able to run things like de-clicking, de-noising, etc.
Fifth, I'd like to stuff that all into .wma Q90

Does anybody make anything like this?

You may assume I own:
A good turntable
A good record cleaner
A good cartridge and stylus
A good phono preamp/general preamp

So I can get line level signals that are properly equalized into my sound card, in fact using balanced lines so that I can even get some noise rejection.


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J. D. (jj) Johnston
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AndyH-ha
post Sep 19 2005, 02:28
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Unless I missed it, there has not been any discussion here about the subsonic contribution. I've been able to examine about a half dozen recordings made on other systems and they were all similar to my own results. The subsonic level, measured between tracks, is always higher than any of the other background noise. It is often higher than moderate level audio.

The LP recording I'm currently working on is a bit worse than average in most respect, being a well abused 50's recording that I rescued from a thrift shop, but I don't know why the subsonics would be much different. The raw recording (not normalized) measures Average RMS -50dB between tracks. Running nothing but a subsonic filter over it drops that 9.4dB. Another recording from a much better condition LP, awaiting its turn for processing, measures initially -57dB and then -68dB after the subsonic filter This is an even larger difference.

In general the highest measured lowest frequency levels vary from about 2Hz to 12Hz. One can't exactly hear the difference directly, but that is a lot of wasted amplifier power and cone flapping for nothing good. So, to add another maximum to my collection: filtering out the subsonics is always desirable. Noise reduction by itself does not accomplish this to an adequate extent.

QUOTE
No, as the numbers become larger the rounding errors of float numbers also become larger.
I concede that, but I think the difference is insignificant when we are talking about music. Making a test on my currently in-process recording, I get an RMS average difference of -195dB using 6dB as the factor and -178dB with 100dB. That certainly is a larger error but no one will ever hear the difference. I guess my pronouncement was more or less equivalent to my other statement about normalization being "absolutely distortion and noise free." Neither is absolutely true, but the difference is absolutely undetectable by human senses.

This post has been edited by AndyH-ha: Sep 19 2005, 02:30
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Woodinville
post Sep 19 2005, 05:17
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QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Sep 18 2005, 05:28 PM)
The subsonic level, measured between tracks, is always higher than any of the other background noise. It is often higher than moderate level audio.
*


Indeed, that would be the "rumble" of a few posts ago, and yes, it is quite large in many cases, due both to pressing as well as playback issues. (and cutter lathe, etc, etc, etc)

As an aside, I wonder how the subsonic filter you use is implimented. Highpass IIR filters at low frequencies can be quite a pain to impliment, especially in fixed point.


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Posts in this topic
- Woodinville   "ripping" LP's   Sep 15 2005, 20:35
- - skelly831   Audiograbber mentions Line-In recording as a featu...   Sep 15 2005, 21:52
- - Axon   It is very hard to run a rip faster than realtime....   Sep 15 2005, 22:02
- - AndyH-ha   There exist a number of sites with album art that ...   Sep 15 2005, 23:00
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Sep 15 2005, 02:00 PM)...   Sep 15 2005, 23:41
- - AndyH-ha   It is true that a good 16 bit DAC will capture all...   Sep 16 2005, 00:35
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Sep 15 2005, 03:35 PM)...   Sep 16 2005, 06:40
- - boojum   Stylus weights: usually magnetics tracked at 1 gr...   Sep 16 2005, 01:39
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (boojum @ Sep 15 2005, 04:39 PM)Stylus ...   Sep 16 2005, 06:43
- - Axon   It's not the end of the world if all you can r...   Sep 16 2005, 02:27
- - boojum   QUOTE (Axon @ Sep 15 2005, 05:27 PM)as vinyl ...   Sep 16 2005, 05:27
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (boojum @ Sep 15 2005, 08:27 PM)QUOTE (...   Sep 16 2005, 06:44
- - Axon   The Cardas Sweep Record has sweeps to 30Khz. Altho...   Sep 16 2005, 05:34
- - AndyH-ha   You want a recommendation for recording software? ...   Sep 16 2005, 08:51
|- - cliveb   Well, there have been lots of replies in this thre...   Sep 16 2005, 10:04
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (cliveb @ Sep 16 2005, 01:04 AM)Well, t...   Sep 17 2005, 11:50
- - AndyH-ha   To keep thing truthful, I looked at my miscellaneo...   Sep 16 2005, 09:45
- - toot   Does it make sense to do a normalise on the record...   Sep 16 2005, 10:21
|- - Garf   QUOTE (toot @ Sep 16 2005, 11:21 AM)Does it m...   Sep 16 2005, 10:23
- - AndyH-ha   One general reason for normalizing is to make opti...   Sep 16 2005, 11:32
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Sep 16 2005, 11:32 AM)...   Sep 16 2005, 12:03
- - AndyH-ha   Of course the recording's noise is amplified b...   Sep 16 2005, 22:12
|- - legg   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Sep 16 2005, 04:12 PM)...   Sep 18 2005, 22:54
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Sep 16 2005, 01:12 PM)...   Sep 20 2005, 17:57
- - slangtruth   And while cliveb rightly won't mention it. as ...   Sep 16 2005, 22:20
- - Axon   One criticism of the "LPs only have 70db of d...   Sep 16 2005, 22:31
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (Axon @ Sep 16 2005, 01:31 PM)One criti...   Sep 17 2005, 11:59
|- - Axon   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Sep 17 2005, 05:59 AM)We...   Sep 17 2005, 19:53
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (Axon @ Sep 17 2005, 07:53 PM)I just ge...   Sep 18 2005, 13:48
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (Axon @ Sep 17 2005, 10:53 AM)QUOTE Now...   Sep 19 2005, 05:15
- - AndyH-ha   QUOTE would be to try recording the end of Neptune...   Sep 18 2005, 22:01
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Sep 18 2005, 10:01 PM)...   Sep 19 2005, 09:21
- - Axon   I'd like to interject here to say that so far,...   Sep 18 2005, 22:14
- - AndyH-ha   Unless I missed it, there has not been any discuss...   Sep 19 2005, 02:28
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Sep 18 2005, 05:28 PM)...   Sep 19 2005, 05:17
- - AndyH-ha   Since I don't do anything in fixed point, none...   Sep 19 2005, 07:53
- - AndyH-ha   I think yes, if there is some difference to be hea...   Sep 19 2005, 11:25
- - DonP   One thing I didn't see mentioned about normali...   Sep 19 2005, 12:08
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (DonP @ Sep 19 2005, 03:08 AM)One thing...   Sep 19 2005, 17:55
- - Axon   What filter settings are recommended for a rumble ...   Sep 19 2005, 19:55
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (Axon @ Sep 19 2005, 10:55 AM)What filt...   Sep 20 2005, 21:22
- - Axon   EDIT: Got confused by my waveform plots. There is ...   Sep 19 2005, 23:14
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (Axon @ Sep 19 2005, 02:14 PM)EDIT: Got...   Sep 20 2005, 21:24
|- - Axon   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Sep 20 2005, 03:24 PM)QU...   Sep 20 2005, 22:30
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (Axon @ Sep 20 2005, 01:30 PM)An honest...   Sep 21 2005, 04:20
- - AndyH-ha   There are a number of filters in CoolEdit that can...   Sep 20 2005, 04:56
|- - Woodinville   QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Sep 19 2005, 07:56 PM)...   Sep 20 2005, 21:25
- - AndyH-ha   Just curious. Ripping is a term often applied to d...   Sep 21 2005, 02:12
- - NogginJ   something tells me autechre werent using mics and/...   Sep 22 2005, 15:28
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (NogginJ @ Sep 22 2005, 03:28 PM)im usi...   Sep 23 2005, 11:20
- - AndyH-ha   Writing your recordings to CD-R does not involve a...   Sep 22 2005, 19:31
- - NogginJ   amen to all that. but any insight onto this ...   Sep 22 2005, 22:32
- - AndyH-ha   cda is simply the extension Windows puts on the fi...   Sep 22 2005, 23:31
- - Axon   About the only thing that I would find unnatural t...   Sep 23 2005, 11:44
- - hujay   Ripping seems to have changed it's meaning sli...   Sep 23 2005, 13:08
- - landy   i have tried to get feedback on my vinyl rips befo...   Sep 23 2005, 14:21
|- - Pio2001   QUOTE (landy @ Sep 23 2005, 03:21 PM)A1 - DJ ...   Sep 25 2005, 14:39
- - Axon   I do hear some clicking in that but it only seems ...   Sep 23 2005, 19:29
- - AndyH-ha   specific words for specific things makes for less ...   Sep 23 2005, 20:15
- - AndyH-ha   Unless Iím missing something, these recording samp...   Sep 23 2005, 21:06
- - Axon   Uh.... 7-zip? RAR support is generally available f...   Sep 23 2005, 22:17
- - landy   i used store mode so no extra compression was done...   Sep 24 2005, 01:13
- - AndyH-ha   It isn't clear to me what kind of feedback you...   Sep 24 2005, 01:53
- - landy   thanks for the reply andy and axon, i did mean to ...   Sep 24 2005, 05:01
- - AndyH-ha   Cartridges do differ but whether or not a more exp...   Sep 24 2005, 23:36
- - Axon   FWIW, apparantly the common term in some circles f...   Sep 30 2005, 17:53
- - landy   pio2001 thanks for the feedback, i have a cd versi...   Sep 30 2005, 20:07
- - mixminus1   QUOTE (landy @ Sep 30 2005, 12:07 PM)if anyon...   Sep 30 2005, 20:14


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