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LAME 3.97 beta recommendation, At last.
kwanbis
post Oct 4 2005, 16:25
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QUOTE (Lyx @ Oct 4 2005, 02:59 PM)
but lame is running out of version-number-space for 3.xx :-)

they can just add another number, like in lame 3.99 -> 3.100


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Lyx
post Oct 4 2005, 16:27
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QUOTE (kwanbis @ Oct 4 2005, 05:25 PM)
QUOTE (Lyx @ Oct 4 2005, 02:59 PM)
but lame is running out of version-number-space for 3.xx :-)

they can just add another number, like in lame 3.99 -> 3.100
*


Hmm, wasn't there some limitation in the headers? That was AFAIK also the reason why you can only see the 3.96 in an mp3-header which was encoded with 3.96.1.


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dev0
post Oct 4 2005, 16:39
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QUOTE (guruboolez @ Oct 4 2005, 04:06 PM)
May I suggest you to lower the minimal bitrate for -V0, which looks exagerated?
For classical music 230 kbps is a pretty high value (on average I obtained 221 kbps, with a minimal value corresponding to less than 180 kbps). 215...220 is more reasonable in my opinion.
*


It's hard to guess averages for LAME's VBR modes. I just encoded one of my favourite albums using -V2 --vbr-new and it ended up at 257kbps average.


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boiling_ice2k4
post Oct 4 2005, 16:40
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Its great to finally see this as the new recommendation, congradulations to the LAME developers and a huge thanks to the dedicated testers here on hydrogenaudio cool.gif
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jaybeee
post Oct 4 2005, 16:49
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It's never twigged before... but why is the '-V 0' VBR average bitrates so much lower than the max of 320? I know 320 is for CBR and I know that at such a high bitrate I couldn't tell the difference. I think what I'm trying to get as is, is if you look at the VBR bitrate ranges you could say there's at least one setting missing from the VBR switches - one that may get you between 270 - 300.

Again, I don't think this is a problem and it doesn't seem necessary given the excellent results with the lower 'V' settings, just wondered that's all.

Sorry if this has been discussed somewhere before, as it is a little off topic.


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rjamorim
post Oct 4 2005, 17:24
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QUOTE (kwanbis @ Oct 4 2005, 12:25 PM)
QUOTE (Lyx @ Oct 4 2005, 02:59 PM)
but lame is running out of version-number-space for 3.xx :-)

they can just add another number, like in lame 3.99 -> 3.100
*



There were rumours that 3.97 would be the last stable version in the 3.x series and then development would move on to 4.0

But now there is a 3.98a branch, so I don't know what to think anymore.


I will now go about removing 3.90.3 from RareWares. All special builds and the load-balanced version will be removed. I'll probably keep the bundle for a few more weeks, and then move it ro RRW.

Cheers!


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kwanbis
post Oct 4 2005, 18:50
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Oct 4 2005, 04:24 PM)
I will now go about removing 3.90.3 from RareWares. All special builds and the load-balanced version will be removed. I'll probably keep the bundle for a few more weeks, and then move it ro RRW.

good idea.


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flipik
post Oct 4 2005, 19:55
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QUOTE (Vietwoojagig @ Oct 4 2005, 03:42 PM)
Give me the reason, why you call it beta AND recommend it.
*


you've got very bad day, right ? wink.gif

me personally, I will be glad to use it even if someone call it "Microsoft LAME Mars Edition pre-alpha-very-dangerous-dontuseme-toxic" as far as I know it's best what we've got.

so if you don't believe betas, dont use it. simple and elegant solution smile.gif
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rjamorim
post Oct 4 2005, 20:01
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QUOTE (Vietwoojagig @ Oct 4 2005, 10:42 AM)
Give me the reason, why you call it beta AND recommend it.
*


Musepack beta 1.14 was widely recommended around here.

auTuV is beta to this day, and is the recommended vorbis version as well.

Etc, etc.


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odious malefacto...
post Oct 4 2005, 20:04
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Oct 4 2005, 11:01 AM)
Etc, etc.
*


Exact Audio Copy

This post has been edited by odious malefactor: Oct 4 2005, 20:05
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Gabriel
post Oct 4 2005, 20:05
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Note: is no one is using the beta, we will not be able to know if it should be promoted to release.
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Althalus
post Oct 4 2005, 20:32
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Just throwing in my few cents.

If it's seen as stable, the please drop the Beta.

If it's seen as 'beta' and needs more testing then please keep the Beta tag, but then please drop the recommendation.

IMO this is very clear programming practice. Alpha > Beta > Final.

Why it's not used here I don't know, but can just speak for myself and I would appreciate if it was.

Regarding all the comments about 'other software' where the situation was the same, I can't only say that two wrong don't make a right.

Why someone could feel different I just can't comprehend. Beta is not supposed to be listed and afaik has never been seen as something that was final, stable and recommended.

Still lots of props and thanks to the developers and testes on L.A.M.E. project, it's greately appreciated.

Thanks
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Vietwoojagig
post Oct 4 2005, 22:26
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QUOTE (Althalus @ Oct 4 2005, 08:32 PM)
Just throwing in my few cents.
If it's seen as stable, the please drop the Beta.
If it's seen as 'beta' and needs more testing then please keep the Beta tag, but then please drop the recommendation.
IMO this is very clear programming practice. Alpha > Beta > Final.
Why it's not used here I don't know, but can just speak for myself and I would appreciate if it was.
Regarding all the comments about 'other software' where the situation was the same, I can't only say that two wrong don't make a right.
Why someone could feel different I just can't comprehend. Beta is not supposed to be listed and afaik has never been seen as something that was final, stable and recommended.
Still lots of props and thanks to the developers and testes on L.A.M.E. project, it's greately appreciated.
Thanks
*
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Shade[ST]
post Oct 4 2005, 23:03
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QUOTE (Althalus @ Oct 4 2005, 01:32 PM)
IMO this is very clear programming practice. Alpha > Beta > Final.

That would be Alpha > Beta > Public release. In any case, we are a closed group, whose testing is important to the LAME release.. think about it this way : if no one tested 3.90, it would have remained 3.90 beta forever..

If you want to use an obsolete version, knock yourself out, but just because the tag "beta" is on a piece of software, doesn't mean that it's buggy : counter-strike was a beta for a LOOOOOOOONG while; EAC is _still_ a beta, and I'll bet you use _that_!

Admittedly, microsoft betas are usually buggy, but generally, in the open-source market, where bugs get corrected the minute they're seen, a beta-status poses no problems (eg. mysql, php, apache, lame, etc..)

FYI : Used in software publishing, "beta" is the name given to a pre-release version of a software product. This beta version is used for testing purposes, is sometimes problematic and thus only available to specific users who are encouraged to provide feedback for improvement. Beta versions are commonly found on company websites and can be downloaded. Many include expiration dates to eliminate proliferation of flawed software.

Thanks again to the LAME team!
T.
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skelly831
post Oct 4 2005, 23:40
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Yay!

This is great news, awesome work and thanks to the devs and everyone involved!

QUOTE
Now, now, let's not get carried away. "LAME Mars Edition pre-alpha-very-dangerous-dontuseme-toxic", all fine for me, but "Microsoft"? The words "microsoft" and "alpha" in the same sentence should be enough to send any sensible being running away, screaming.


As long as it doesn't say "Creative Labs" anywhere tongue.gif ...


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Vietwoojagig
post Oct 4 2005, 23:43
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QUOTE (Shade[ST] @ Oct 4 2005, 11:03 PM)
QUOTE (Althalus @ Oct 4 2005, 01:32 PM)
IMO this is very clear programming practice. Alpha > Beta > Final.

That would be Alpha > Beta > Public release. In any case, we are a closed group, whose testing is important to the LAME release.. think about it this way : if no one tested 3.90, it would have remained 3.90 beta forever..

If you want to use an obsolete version, knock yourself out, but just because the tag "beta" is on a piece of software, doesn't mean that it's buggy : counter-strike was a beta for a LOOOOOOOONG while; EAC is _still_ a beta, and I'll bet you use _that_!
*
One last try:
Life is getting easier, if people who use words have the same understanding of the meaning of the words. If I say "car", people hopefully think of something with four weels and seats inside, powered by an engine and which is used to move people from one place to another.
Software-developers and software-users hopefully have the same understanding in the word "beta" in conjunction with software. You can give me as many examples you like of software, which includes the word "beta" in its versioning and which is used by many people. Even if it is the best available software at that time, it does not care: The "beta"-flag gives a clear indication, that something is missing or uncertain. If nothing is missing or (under a certain probability) uncertain, the beta flag should be removed. OK, there is no clear line, when this should happen, but each software-developer must have an idea, when to say: OK, enough tested, let's make it a final. I hope, developers of software have an idea of what to reach with the next final version. And if this has been reached it is totaly fine to call such a version a final version. And then start again to find new targets for the next final version. That's the way things (should) go.
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Daffy
post Oct 5 2005, 00:14
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13 entries found for beta.
be·ta Audio pronunciation of "beta" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bt, b-)
n.

1. The second letter of the Greek alphabet. See table at alphabet.
2. The second item in a series or system of classification.
3. A mathematical measure of the sensitivity of rates of return on a portfolio or a given stock compared with rates of return on the market as a whole. A beta of 1.0 indicates that an asset closely follows the market; a beta greater than 1.0 indicates greater volatility than the market.
4. Physics.
1. A beta particle.
2. A beta ray.
5. Chemistry.
1. The second position from a designated carbon atom in an organic molecule at which an atom or a radical may be substituted.
2. An isomeric variation of a chemical compound. Used in combination: beta-estradiol.
6. Computer Science. A beta version.

beta

adj 1: second in order of importance; "the candidate, considered a beta male, was perceived to be unable to lead his party to victory" 2: preliminary or testing stage of a software or hardware product; "a beta version"; "beta software" n 1: the 2nd letter of the Greek alphabet 2: beets [syn: Beta, genus Beta]

Seems we need to redefine the word beta.... biggrin.gif
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rjamorim
post Oct 5 2005, 00:23
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Jesus, do you guys need to worry about SEMANTICS? It's just a frikkin' word!

Please, worry about quality and encoding speed, instead.


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Wombat
post Oct 5 2005, 01:47
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Just tried one sample, the good old "birds" and it degraded to 3.96 builds. Didn´t encode anything in awhile. Is there a thread for bringing in testing for 3.97b? Excuse me but i haven´t been around here for a while until i heard about this build. Cheers to all the ones still very active around here!
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Daffy
post Oct 5 2005, 02:02
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Oct 4 2005, 06:23 PM)
Jesus, do you guys need to worry about SEMANTICS? It's just a frikkin' word!

Please, worry about quality and encoding speed, instead.
*


LOL....I was just cracking a joke.... biggrin.gif

I concur, let's get on with our lives... biggrin.gif
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cabbagerat
post Oct 5 2005, 06:52
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Is the recommended build of 3.97b a build of the 3.97beta source off sourceforge or are there some other patches applied?


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Jojo
post Oct 5 2005, 07:04
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wow! Finally... biggrin.gif


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Yogiboar
post Oct 5 2005, 09:08
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I always think of beta versions as 'unfinished'.

In the case of Nero, software is continually updated and recognised purely by its version number - in other words each version stands alone as a finished product [some may disagree with this!] but can be updated by later versions. Thus these are not betas.

I thus have some sympathy for the view that retaining the beta tag is confusing for some users, but at the end of the day if it works WTF does it matter.


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Vietwoojagig
post Oct 5 2005, 09:16
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ Oct 5 2005, 12:23 AM)
Jesus, do you guys need to worry about SEMANTICS? It's just a frikkin' word!
*

QUOTE (Monty Pythons Flying Circus)
Tonight 'Spectrum' examines the whole question of frothing and falling, coughing and calling, screaming and bawling, walling and stalling, galling and mauling, palling and hauling, trawling and squalling and zalling. Zalling? Is there a word zalling? If there is what does it mean...if there isn't what does it mean? Perhaps both. Maybe neither. What do I mean by the word mean? What do I mean by the word word, what do I mean by what do I mean, what do I mean by do, and what do I do by mean? What do I do by do by do and what do I do by wasting your time like this? Goodnight.
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smok3
post Oct 5 2005, 09:22
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QUOTE
Thanks go out to the LAME developers and the (few) members of this site, who helped testing recent LAME versions

where exactly did this tests take place? (what tests?)
(edit: iam using 3.97 for a while now, just wonder...)


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