DSD-2-PCM -- proof of concept, test sample and source code here |
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DSD-2-PCM -- proof of concept, test sample and source code here |
Oct 8 2005, 23:55
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#1
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![]() Group: Developer Posts: 1317 Joined: 20-March 04 From: Göttingen (DE) Member No.: 12875 |
The ZIP contains 4 files:
- dsd2pcm.jar (the converter written in Java, outputs raw 24/88 PCM, intel byte order) - info.txt (contains some infos) - test2822k.dsd (14 seconds, mono DSD, 5 megs) - test44k.mp3 (conversion result) have fun, Sebi Edit-2011: For the latest C/C++ source code see https://code.google.com/p/dsd2pcm/ It is released under the new BSD license. The attatchment to this post is still the first Java release. This post has been edited by SebastianG: Dec 4 2011, 17:45
Attached File(s)
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Nov 29 2009, 22:51
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dBpowerAMP developer Group: Developer (Donating) Posts: 2653 Joined: 24-March 02 Member No.: 1615 |
QUOTE The final amusing aspect to all this is that Scarlet Book spec recommends that SACD players incorporate some low-pass filtering (either 50 kHz or 100kHz) to lessen the amount of ultrahigh frequency content the downstream gear would have to (perhaps badly) deal with. Makes interesting reading: http://grad.uprm.edu/tesis/latorrenavarro.pdf QUOTE In addition, Sony claims to have developed a decimation procedure, named Super Bit Mapping Direct Down conversion, which uses a “super-power one-stage” FIR digital filter/noise shaper with 32,639 taps to down-convert the DSD signal into a CD quality signal in a single stage [1]. This allows for a CD with the highest possible audio quality. According to manufacturers, DSD can offer a frequency response from DC to 100 kHz and a residual noise power of -120 dB thanks to its 5th-order noise shaping filters [1]. However, given this noise shaping technique, the residual noise power is not constant throughout the signal bandwidth. By using noise-shaping filters of higher order, it is possible to increase the resolution in the audio band at the expense of resolution at exceedingly (inaudible) high frequencies. These results are valid however only for static, non-transient signals. Transient signals will have poor resolution in a one-bit system. If the signal does not endure for a long enough time, the noise shaper of the one-bit system will not minimize the error. As indicated by its proponents, DSD offers the advantage of eliminating the decimation and interpolation processes necessary in PCM modulation, thus preventing additional-unnecessary re-quantization noise from polluting the signal. In the SACD "Scarlet Book" Sony and Philips mandate the use of a 100 kHz low-pass filter in SACD mastering so that when the playback volume at standard DSD level is equivalent to 100W, the noise component "outside the audible sound spectrum" is 1W or less. In addition, SACD players must low-pass-filter their analog output above 50 kHz. -------------------- Spoon http://www.dbpoweramp.com
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Nov 30 2009, 06:33
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#3
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Group: Members Posts: 2082 Joined: 18-December 03 Member No.: 10538 |
QUOTE The final amusing aspect to all this is that Scarlet Book spec recommends that SACD players incorporate some low-pass filtering (either 50 kHz or 100kHz) to lessen the amount of ultrahigh frequency content the downstream gear would have to (perhaps badly) deal with. Makes interesting reading: http://grad.uprm.edu/tesis/latorrenavarro.pdf Interesting listening tests, though also a bit curious. Not sure how someone managed to get 81.5% correct in a 16-trial listening test of 24/88.2-->redbook-->24/88.2 vs original 24/88.2, as his Table 1 shows -- not because I expect it should be hard to do (though I do) but because the math doesn't work: 13/16 = 81.25% correct (p = 0.011) 14/16 = 87.50% correct (p = 0.002) So how does one get 81.5% correct? His threshold for calling a non-null result seems to be p<0.01, by which criterion one, not two as he says, listeners could tell the difference. Or did I miss something? I also assume (because the author used Audition), but do not know for sure (since he didn't say so), that proper dithering was performed during downconversion. And as always a later retest of the 'best' listeners would have been nice, to see if their results were a fluke. Finally, my experience with audiophile naysayers suggests they would argue from the other side: namely that using headphones limited to 22 kHz for recordings with a 44 kHz bandwidth cripples the test. |
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SebastianG DSD-2-PCM -- proof of concept Oct 8 2005, 23:55
skamp Now you need to develop a DVD-ROM driver for readi... Oct 9 2005, 01:27
SebastianG QUOTE (skamp @ Oct 9 2005, 01:27 AM)Now you n... Oct 9 2005, 10:32
SebastianG Oh, I noticed a small bug: The dsd file size must ... Oct 9 2005, 11:06
tarsier So is it theoretically possible to convert the PCM... Dec 24 2006, 20:33
putanik QUOTE (tarsier @ Dec 24 2006, 13:33) So i... Dec 24 2006, 22:54
tarsier Thanks for the link. But right now, I'm only ... Dec 26 2006, 16:28
Kees de Visser QUOTE (tarsier @ Dec 26 2006, 16:28) In d... Dec 26 2006, 19:03
andyshedd I'm mildly curious how this method compares an... Jan 8 2007, 22:44
frenchglen Is there any updated info about this program? I tr... Jun 8 2009, 15:23
LukeS I am bringing this back form years of being dead. ... Nov 23 2009, 15:56
GeSomeone I think it's in the first post.
QUOTE (Sebasti... Nov 23 2009, 19:12
SebastianG QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Nov 23 2009, 19:12) I ... Nov 23 2009, 20:31
LukeS SebastianG,
Awesome job on the program, my proble... Nov 23 2009, 22:32
vincefalks I am not an expert but it would be cool to compare... Nov 24 2009, 00:17
rpp3po What would be a higher quality approach than 1. co... Nov 24 2009, 02:48
SebastianG QUOTE (LukeS @ Nov 23 2009, 22:32) The ou... Nov 24 2009, 10:38
2Bdecided With the huge caveat that I made no attempt to do ... Nov 24 2009, 12:40
vincefalks The noise is indeed a problem with the DSD format ... Nov 24 2009, 13:07
rpp3po The problem with the "most accurate capture... Nov 24 2009, 14:01
vincefalks QUOTE (rpp3po @ Nov 24 2009, 15:01) The p... Nov 24 2009, 14:25

Canar QUOTE (vincefalks @ Nov 24 2009, 08:25) I... Nov 24 2009, 15:49

rpp3po Raw DSD means saving about 3 GB per 70 minute ster... Nov 24 2009, 17:23

BOBCHEWIE QUOTE (rpp3po @ Nov 24 2009, 10:23) Raw D... Jan 3 2010, 12:14

rpp3po QUOTE (BOBCHEWIE @ Jan 3 2010, 12:14) scr... Jan 3 2010, 14:15

Axon QUOTE (BOBCHEWIE @ Jan 3 2010, 05:14) QUO... Jan 3 2010, 14:22

Martel QUOTE (BOBCHEWIE @ Jan 3 2010, 12:14) ...... Jan 4 2010, 09:53
Mike Giacomelli QUOTE (rpp3po @ Nov 24 2009, 08:01) DSD h... Nov 24 2009, 15:46
LukeS QUOTE (rpp3po @ Nov 24 2009, 08:01) The p... Nov 24 2009, 21:39
rpp3po QUOTE (LukeS @ Nov 24 2009, 21:39) 48kHz ... Nov 25 2009, 03:00

LukeS QUOTE (rpp3po @ Nov 24 2009, 21:00) QUOTE... Nov 25 2009, 04:20

Mike Giacomelli QUOTE (LukeS @ Nov 24 2009, 22:20) QUOTE ... Nov 25 2009, 05:25

LukeS QUOTE (Mike Giacomelli @ Nov 24 2009, 23... Nov 25 2009, 05:29

Mike Giacomelli QUOTE (LukeS @ Nov 24 2009, 23:29) Also I... Nov 25 2009, 05:55
vincefalks QUOTE (LukeS @ Nov 24 2009, 22:39) I am v... Nov 25 2009, 08:02
knutinh QUOTE (LukeS @ Nov 24 2009, 21:39) Also t... Nov 25 2009, 08:36
Axon Look into the dynamic range of SACD at 22khz somet... Nov 24 2009, 21:56
Axon Yes, let's all thank LukeS for being a boy sco... Nov 25 2009, 04:59
LukeS QUOTE (Axon @ Nov 24 2009, 22:59) Yes, le... Nov 25 2009, 05:21

Martel QUOTE (LukeS @ Nov 25 2009, 05:21) The bo... Nov 25 2009, 10:24
2Bdecided QUOTE (Axon @ Nov 25 2009, 03:59) Sorry f... Nov 25 2009, 12:13
udauda QUOTE (Axon @ Nov 24 2009, 19:59) You... Nov 26 2009, 02:31
2Bdecided QUOTE (udauda @ Nov 26 2009, 01:31) Does ... Nov 26 2009, 11:46
vincefalks QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 26 2009, 12:46) Li... Nov 26 2009, 12:02
rpp3po Yawn! Am I really the last one to get where t... Nov 26 2009, 12:37
vincefalks QUOTE (rpp3po @ Nov 26 2009, 13:37) Yawn... Nov 26 2009, 13:10
rpp3po At least you seem believe the life-like-analog-sou... Nov 26 2009, 13:25
vincefalks QUOTE (rpp3po @ Nov 26 2009, 14:25) At le... Nov 26 2009, 13:40
LukeS QUOTE (vincefalks @ Nov 25 2009, 02:02) Q... Nov 25 2009, 09:16
SebastianG QUOTE (LukeS @ Nov 25 2009, 09:16) See th... Nov 25 2009, 10:32
knutinh QUOTE (LukeS @ Nov 25 2009, 09:16) DST wo... Nov 25 2009, 18:02
simmconn QUOTE DST would work but I have not found a no low... Nov 26 2009, 01:31
vincefalks QUOTE (simmconn @ Nov 26 2009, 02:31) QUO... Nov 26 2009, 03:38
rpp3po Sorry, if I didn't express myself clearly enou... Nov 25 2009, 12:04
Axon It's a surprisingly well known mod, actually. ... Nov 25 2009, 19:38
rpp3po I find it interesting, nevertheless. What equipmen... Nov 25 2009, 20:38
LukeS Wow, I really am messing thing up lately ; I got ... Nov 26 2009, 07:27
simmconn And I just spent one and a half hours to encode an... Nov 26 2009, 08:16
2Bdecided Yes, the distortions of SACD are inaudible. Especi... Nov 26 2009, 15:57
Canar So that's what they mean by "warm" s... Nov 26 2009, 16:22
Axon If SACD really did have a similar distortion profi... Nov 26 2009, 21:14
SebastianG Just for kicks and giggles I rewrote most of ... Nov 27 2009, 03:26
vincefalks QUOTE (SebastianG @ Nov 27 2009, 03:26) J... Nov 27 2009, 03:44
SebastianG QUOTE (vincefalks @ Nov 27 2009, 03:44) T... Nov 27 2009, 04:14

vincefalks QUOTE (SebastianG @ Nov 27 2009, 04:14) S... Nov 27 2009, 05:11

Kees de Visser There seems to be a growing (niche) market for onl... Nov 27 2009, 09:02

2Bdecided QUOTE (vincefalks @ Nov 27 2009, 04:11) N... Nov 27 2009, 10:59

rpp3po QUOTE (vincefalks @ Nov 27 2009, 05:11) N... Nov 27 2009, 12:55


2Bdecided QUOTE (rpp3po @ Nov 27 2009, 11:55) An an... Nov 27 2009, 13:00

krabapple QUOTE (vincefalks @ Nov 26 2009, 23:11) T... Nov 29 2009, 03:56
rpp3po QUOTE (vincefalks @ Nov 27 2009, 03:44) H... Nov 27 2009, 04:16
LukeS QUOTE (SebastianG @ Nov 26 2009, 21:26) J... Nov 27 2009, 07:33
smack QUOTE (LukeS @ Nov 27 2009, 07:33) Window... Nov 27 2009, 11:00
.halverhahn DXD is PCM - just with a bunch of noise above 48kH... Nov 27 2009, 15:34
rpp3po Wow! The DXD track is certainly nothing Bruce ... Nov 27 2009, 17:47
spoon As the noise is constant this shows the levels qui... Nov 29 2009, 20:54
spoon Based on Sebastians good work I have wrapped the d... Dec 1 2009, 17:49
kode54 @spoon: I presume you modified the stage 1 filter ... Dec 1 2009, 19:55
spoon I thought it was a command line option on dsd2pcm? Dec 1 2009, 20:15
kode54 QUOTE (spoon @ Dec 1 2009, 11:15) I thoug... Dec 7 2009, 15:32
krabapple This is all peachy for those recording DSD files o... Dec 2 2009, 06:56
BOBCHEWIE QUOTE (krabapple @ Dec 1 2009, 23:56) Thi... Jan 3 2010, 13:33
spoon I might be wrong, but I do not think there are any... Dec 2 2009, 09:55
krabapple QUOTE (spoon @ Dec 2 2009, 03:55) I might... Dec 2 2009, 17:23
Martel QUOTE There are three types of SACDs[9]:
* Hy... Dec 2 2009, 10:35
.halverhahn Just for your information: Wheatus is offering The... Dec 2 2009, 11:38
2Bdecided QUOTE (.halverhahn @ Dec 2 2009, 10:38) J... Dec 2 2009, 15:11
vincefalks Ok finally my warning was lifted after a little si... Dec 7 2009, 17:55
krabapple QUOTE (vincefalks @ Dec 7 2009, 11:55) QU... Dec 7 2009, 18:26
2Bdecided QUOTE (vincefalks @ Dec 7 2009, 16:55) I... Dec 7 2009, 18:33
spoon Did anyone manage to decode a .dsf file? (such as ... Dec 8 2009, 10:21
Martel A (square analog) pulse has an infinitely wide spe... Dec 7 2009, 18:26
udauda I wonder, how come Pro-DSD never comes up with a s... Jan 4 2010, 13:39
rpp3po Excellent paper, thanks! Jan 4 2010, 14:31
krabapple I remember this one from a few years back....I for... Jan 8 2010, 22:05
ElfeJoyeux Hello,
I just discovered this awesome topic durin... Mar 11 2010, 22:34
Hobbit13 QUOTE (ElfeJoyeux @ Mar 11 2010, 22:34) T... Jul 19 2010, 10:48
Sik_Lescinovid Has anyone so far noticed that when creating a 24 ... Nov 27 2011, 18:28![]() ![]() |
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