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Topic: WMPTSE (Read 309279 times) previous topic - next topic
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WMPTSE

Reply #175
---- For every FLAC tagged files -----
The correspondances are :
FLACTag => WMP Entry

"TITLE" => Title
"ALBUMARTIST" => WM/AlbumArtist
"ALBUM" => WM/AlbumTitle
"TRACKNUMBER" => WM/TrackNumber
"ARTIST" => Author
"PERFORMER" => WM/AlbumArtist
"COPYRIGHT" => Copyright
"ORGANIZATION" => WM/Publisher
"DESCRIPTION" => MoreInfo
"GENRE" => WM/Genre
"LOCATION" => ProviderURL
"ISRC" => WM/MCDI
"YEAR" => WM/Year
"COMPOSER" => WM/Composer
"CONDUCTOR" => WM/Conductor
"PUBLISHER" => WM/Publisher
MP4 support looks great--I tried it out on files encoded with the Nero CLI. One question: Does any MP4 field map to WM/AlbumArtist? (See the FLAC example above.) I've tried ALBUMARTIST, BAND, and PERFORMER but I can't seem to get WMP to recognise the tag.

WMPTSE

Reply #176
i don't know if this is something to do with wmptse or not but as a few of you have a lot of experience with flac and wmp

how can i get wmp to recognise flac files as media files when browsing my pc to add to the library?


It is the point of WMPTSE....If it does not work, you should report the problem and give :
1) what software do you use to encode the file in flac format (and if possible the flac version this program use)
2) what parameters do you use with it
3) what version of WMP do you use
4) what version of WMPTSE do you use

And then we maybe we could began to corner it

MaB_fr

MP4 support looks great--I tried it out on files encoded with the Nero CLI. One question: Does any MP4 field map to WM/AlbumArtist? (See the FLAC example above.) I've tried ALBUMARTIST, BAND, and PERFORMER but I can't seem to get WMP to recognise the tag.


ALBUMARTIST should work.
Beware that WMP treats WM/AlbumArtist in some bizarre kind of way. I was not able to determine exactly where WMP get the "Contributin Artist" information. For now, ALBUMARTIST AND PERFORMER are added in WM/AlbumArtist (WMP support multiple AlbumArtist for the same disk.....)
If someone know the subtle difference and where to force it....I could'nt
It may be in an undocumented tag type ("WM/Performer" ? "WM/ContributingArtist" ?). I will investigate for 2.0 release.

MaB_fr

WMPTSE

Reply #177
Hello,


When reinstalling some of my old hardware with Windows 2000, i've just discovered that WMPTSE 1.01 works perfectly fine with WMP9...

You've just have to register the server yourself, since i've disabled it in the installer (believing that WMPTSE didn't work with inferior version).

That's an happy news for Win2K users....

You'll need to do (if <pathWMPTSE> is your WMPTSE's installation directory) in Start -> Run (for example) :


regsvr32 "<pathWMPTSE>\WMPTagSupportExtender.dll"


When a messagebox displays "succeeded", it means you've got it right...
Not so hard to have all tags working in WMP9.


MaB_fr

WMPTSE

Reply #178
Hi and thanks for a wonderfully useful piece of software. I have one problem I thought someone may be able to help with. I have 20,000 FLAC's I want to import to WMP/MCE. The FLAC's where created from WAV's in MediaMonkey. When I import the files to WMP with the plugin enabled I do not get the 'Album Artist' tag completed.

After reading comments above I have discovered that MediaMonkey has added a "Album Artist" tag not a "AlbumArtist" tag. If I use Foobar to add the tag (without the space) the import works perfectly. Question is, is there a way to get the plugin to read the tag with the space in, or alternatively a way to bulk change the tag descriptor on all of these files.

Thanks in advance.

Owen

WMPTSE

Reply #179
After reading comments above I have discovered that MediaMonkey has added a "Album Artist" tag not a "AlbumArtist" tag.
This tag should really have no space for FLAC ("ALBUMARTIST") -- I suggest you bug the Media Monkey folks... in their forum.

WMPTSE

Reply #180
Beware that WMP treats WM/AlbumArtist in some bizarre kind of way. I was not able to determine exactly where WMP get the "Contributin Artist" information. For now, ALBUMARTIST AND PERFORMER are added in WM/AlbumArtist (WMP support multiple AlbumArtist for the same disk.....)

If someone know the subtle difference and where to force it....I could'nt
It may be in an undocumented tag type ("WM/Performer" ? "WM/ContributingArtist" ?). I will investigate for 2.0 release.

MaB_fr
MaB_fr, contributing artists (as they are called in the WMP 10/11 GUI) are stored as "Author" in WMA -- each one entered would be an additional WMA Author tag.  I personally think the FLAC, etc. "PERFORMER" tag should be mapped to Author (one of the "contributing artists") and not "WM/AlbumArtist" -- while probably giving the ARTIST tags priority to be the 1st entry as it appears in WMP (first Authors).  There should only be one "WM/AlbumArtist" per track... WMP 10/11 won't even allow you to add multiple names.

WMPTSE

Reply #181
Hi,

I have a WMPTSE related question:

I've installed WMP11 (Beta) followed by the Illiminable DirectShow Filters and then WMP Tag Support Extender.

I can now play OGG files in WMP but for some reason cannot load them into the library.

I've checked that I have vorbis comments in my files (using vorbiscomment.exe) and can see the TITLE tags etc.

Am I supposed to see any extra menu options somewhere for the plug-in? I noticed that OGG files appeared in the list of File Types to associate with WMP so checked that. Any ideas as to why I cannot use "Add to Library (F3)" and have my OGG files add to the library? Curiously my AAC M4A files were added...

Thanks!

RW.

UPDATE: I've now done a manual regsvr32 WMPTagSupportExtender.dll and I now see it in the plug-in list... looks like the 1.0.1 installer doesn't fully install.

But, still no obvious ability to actually add OGG files to the library... do I need to do anything special other than drag a directory to WMP?

Thanks!

WMPTSE

Reply #182
After reading comments above I have discovered that MediaMonkey has added a "Album Artist" tag not a "AlbumArtist" tag.
This tag should really have no space for FLAC ("ALBUMARTIST") -- I suggest you bug the Media Monkey folks... in their forum.

Um, why?

http://flac.sourceforge.net/format.html#me..._vorbis_comment
http://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html

"ASCII 0x20 through 0x7D, 0x3D ('=') excluded" includes space, so it isn't illegal.

WMPTSE

Reply #183

After reading comments above I have discovered that MediaMonkey has added a "Album Artist" tag not a "AlbumArtist" tag.
This tag should really have no space for FLAC ("ALBUMARTIST") -- I suggest you bug the Media Monkey folks... in their forum.

Um, why?

http://flac.sourceforge.net/format.html#me..._vorbis_comment
http://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html

"ASCII 0x20 through 0x7D, 0x3D ('=') excluded" includes space, so it isn't illegal.
No, it's probably not "illegal"... but the common used tag is ALBUMARTIST *without* a space.  Just like TRACKNUMBER.  Just how it is...

WMPTSE

Reply #184


After reading comments above I have discovered that MediaMonkey has added a "Album Artist" tag not a "AlbumArtist" tag.
This tag should really have no space for FLAC ("ALBUMARTIST") -- I suggest you bug the Media Monkey folks... in their forum.

Um, why?

http://flac.sourceforge.net/format.html#me..._vorbis_comment
http://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/v-comment.html

"ASCII 0x20 through 0x7D, 0x3D ('=') excluded" includes space, so it isn't illegal.
No, it's probably not "illegal"... but the common used tag is ALBUMARTIST *without* a space.  Just like TRACKNUMBER.  Just how it is...

foobar2000 users probably all use ALBUM ARTIST.

WMPTSE

Reply #185
D'oh... Well, welcome to lack of real standards.    The power of flexible tagging.  You'd think with "TRACKNUMBER" being as standard as you get... that "ALBUMARTIST" would be the obvious choice for most.  (Maybe WMPTSE might need to support both... but if they both exist and are in conflict, which one should take priority?)

WMPTSE

Reply #186
D'oh... Well, welcome to lack of real standards.    The power of flexible tagging.  You'd think with "TRACKNUMBER" being as standard as you get... that "ALBUMARTIST" would be the obvious choice for most.  (Maybe WMPTSE might need to support both... but if they both exist and are in conflict, which one should take priority?)


Supporting both would be wonderful! (At least for me as it would save hundreds of hours of work going through each album with something like Foobar to add the 'AlbumArtist' tag). I would have thought there is almost no chance of both being in existence, and if they are the probably wouldn't be a drama to take the 'AlbumArtist' tag as authoritative in preference to the one with the space.

WMPTSE

Reply #187
D'oh... Well, welcome to lack of real standards.    The power of flexible tagging.  You'd think with "TRACKNUMBER" being as standard as you get... that "ALBUMARTIST" would be the obvious choice for most.  (Maybe WMPTSE might need to support both... but if they both exist and are in conflict, which one should take priority?)



Actually on doing more research on this it would seem that if anything "Album Artist" is more likely to exist than "AlbumArtist". See:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=31530

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...ds#ALBUM_ARTIST

I would give my right arm to have this supported, or to come up with some way to edit the tag descriptor in bulk!

WMPTSE

Reply #188
Wow. Quite some noise here...

Hum....i am very touchy on these kind of subject, you may regret it 

<boring developper politics>
For the lack of standard and the <space> or <nospace> problem :

I'm not very fond of the "oss" (i'm generalising here...) way of believing "choice is always good" (known as the bazaar).
As you can see with this example : a SIMPLE SPACE can be VERY decieving...

How much would have it cost if someone just MAKE A SPEC for this ?....
As you can clearly see in my code, i'm not so much a "SPEC everywhere!" guy....BUT....there's time where a good aknowledgement with every parties HELPS every parties. Absolute flexibillity is never good : we need to communicate at least, then we need basic common values (COMMUNicate) !!! <i can go on and on on this subject  ....>


Also, if you read all the posts in this forum topic, you'll find that i've ended the OGG write support for the very same reason : no standardisation of OGG tagging (it's one abstraction level down, but it's the same POLITICAL problem), no communication possible, reverse engeneering in most case, then hacks everywhere and then bugs, and then angry users and then depressed developpers and then no more software....

That's why, as i've done WMPTSE on my free time and released it free for all (including source....), i will not spend my [ precious|pretencious -choose your word-] time adding every damn possibilities for every damn uncomplete meta-tagging standards  (and there's a lot....)

You have got the source. If you want a space in your WM/AlbumArtist flag for every FLACTagged files, go on.
You'll just have to add the space in "FLACTagSupport.h" (search the beautifulls #define), recompile it, and erase the "bad" FLACTagSupport.dll.
I am here to help you rebuild WMPTSE if you don't possess Visual Studio and wish to use gcc or whatever you wish to use
</boring developper politics>

Thanks grommet for the Contributing Artist thing. I was too lazy to search it...
I will correct this in the next release (1.0.2 probably, unless a major bug is raised). [of course if you are in a hurry, you can do it yourself : FLACTagSupport.c => GetFLACMetaDataWMAttributeNameEqu() and change the strcmpi]

For the WMP11 Beta. Once and for all !!!  :

I'm not able to install it under my Win2K box, (yeah, i know ) and no documentation has been released.

So i can't help anyone on this subject. I'm just as completelly blinded as you are.

For the OGG in WMP11 Library, i remember that the first release of WMP10 was including the charming "MLS bug", which stands for MediaLibrary Support bug. It simply disabled the customizing in the Library. Maybe Microsoft is doing it all again. Can't say....It's beta though. So don't be too bad with MS

For those willing to try WMPTSE under WMP11, i advise you to install the 1.0 msi file (i silencelly tricked it down to bypass the registrering problem  )


MaB_fr

WMPTSE

Reply #189

D'oh... Well, welcome to lack of real standards.    The power of flexible tagging.  You'd think with "TRACKNUMBER" being as standard as you get... that "ALBUMARTIST" would be the obvious choice for most.  (Maybe WMPTSE might need to support both... but if they both exist and are in conflict, which one should take priority?)



Actually on doing more research on this it would seem that if anything "Album Artist" is more likely to exist than "AlbumArtist". See:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=31530

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...ds#ALBUM_ARTIST

I would give my right arm to have this supported, or to come up with some way to edit the tag descriptor in bulk!


Oh dear !!!!!

It's not even self-coherent....!!!!
"ALBUM ARTIST"
And then 
"FIRST_PLAYED" "LAST_PLAYED" ?
 

I know english is not my native language but are " " and "_" really different in meaning there ?

I always understand standard as "minimum for everyone".
Why raise entropy in a system created to lowered it ?

MaB_fr

WMPTSE

Reply #190
Two points:
  • design by committee (see Disclaimer on that wiki page)
  • historical reasons (existing components with conflicting conventions)

WMPTSE

Reply #191
Two points:
  • design by committee (see Disclaimer on that wiki page)
  • historical reasons (existing components with conflicting conventions)

Yeah, i'd like to see the OGG meta tagging commitee, i'm really in need for it you know.
The history, as we both know, is made by human. They can preempt "History" if they have the guts to.
So much for the boring subject. Let's go on WMPTSE, i made my decisions (my history  )

WMPTSE

Reply #192
Thanks MaB_fr for writing your WMP Tag Extender plugin.

As someone coming from iTunes which has excellent Tag support (even Paul Thurrott uses it in prefrence to WMP as a result! see http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/wmp11.asp ), I was shocked by how bad WMP 10 is. Basically if you are not using MP3 then WMP is pretty much uesless.

I can see your plugin allows WMP to read AAC tags and that your webpage admits it is READ ONLY access.

I was wondering what the possiblity is of you doing the following enhancements -

1. Add write support for AAC (and other MPEG formats)
2. It appears you do not provide read access to embedded artwork for AAC etc., could you also add this?
3. Your plugin does not support AIFF files at all (AIFF does support the use of ID tags included embedded artwork), could you possible add support for this file format?

If you need to test these other files formats then iTunes can convert easily from one to the other and let you edit the tags (at its end), you can then monitor the iTunes folder in WMP10 and see what the results are.

For your information (don't treat this as gospel), I get the impression from my own experimentation that WMP 11 will work with your plugin (at least if it is installed before hand).

Note: WMP11 appears to be no better than WMP10 in terms of tag support (in other words it still sucks), it does however look more attractive).

WMPTSE

Reply #193
Thanks MaB_fr for writing your WMP Tag Extender plugin.

As someone coming from iTunes which has excellent Tag support (even Paul Thurrott uses it in prefrence to WMP as a result! see http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/wmp11.asp), I was shocked by how bad WMP 10 is. Basically if you are not using MP3 then WMP is pretty much uesless.
Don't forget WMA & WMA Lossless.  WAV is also supported, but without internal tagging... of course.  Microsoft has little interest in adding library/tagging support for formats it does not support and ship itself.  Just like I don't expect Apple to add WMA support anytime soon to iPod/iTunes.  This is why plugins like WMPTSE need to exist.  The only thing you can wish for.... is that Microsoft will make WMP 11 (and Vista) easily extensible by add-ons instead of "hacks."

Also, I don't find iTunes to have "excellent tagging support."  No Album Artist, no way to lookup metadata for existing content ripped outside of iTunes, no way to get album art automatically, no WMA Support, only supports iPod, doesn't autodiscover new files, etc.

WMPTSE

Reply #194
Wow. Quite some noise here...

Hum....i am very touchy on these kind of subject, you may regret it 

<boring developper politics>
For the lack of standard and the <space> or <nospace> problem :


Sorry, I did not realise the sensitivity but can certainly understand the frustration.

For those who might have the similar problem I have fixed my problem by using a MP3Tag ‘action’ to add an additional Tag for ‘AlbumArtist’ to my whole collection, so I now have both bases covered. I know it is a bit messy to have both but the upside is that now the files work with almost any player I have tried.

WMPTSE now works perfectly, thanks for a great product…

WMPTSE

Reply #195
1. Add write support for AAC (and other MPEG formats)
2. It appears you do not provide read access to embedded artwork for AAC etc., could you also add this?
3. Your plugin does not support AIFF files at all (AIFF does support the use of ID tags included embedded artwork), could you possible add support for this file format?


You're welcome.
First, i'd like to remember everyone that 1.0 is only 2 month old !!! 
I'm alone on this one (despite the fact that i greatly welcome any developper who'd like to participate....MESSAGE !!!! MESSAGE !!!!)  So let WMPTSE grow a bit first...

1. The write support for MP4 is in studying phase "one". I've sufficent information to do it. But not enough to do it easily (things like extra padding inside the taggs must be handled properly). So i can't say if MPEG4 tagging write support will soon be ready or not soon. I'm working on it (as thinking the right way to do it).
In a perfect world, a developper would take care of it for me (and i asked one already, who didn't answer) and it will be is responsability to do it (i've made WMPTSE pluggable just for this...it has not been a success so far  ). As we live in the real world, it seems i will be doing it...(and i'm not using MPEG4 files, so be happy  )
When ? I must ask you to wait until my brain tells me "go write the code now !". Which is not today so far 

2. The "non-textual" meta-tagging support is planned for 2.0 release. As it involves modifications in WMPTSE plug-in API, it is in a draft state but it is one of the main objectives of WMPTSE 2.0. So it will be in.

3. I must ask how widely is used AIFF today... Again, i can't afford to disperse myself too much and as i don't use this format, i'm not naturally willing to spend time coding support for it  (yeah, I AM a lazy coder  )
If it is, at least, as widely used as FLAC, i may kick my butt a bit on this one to do it. I deeply would prefer if you find me a developper (yourself ?) with the AIFF knowledge. The WMPTSE 1.0 plug-in API is easy as 1-2-3 and it's just a dll far for someone with the right metatagging skills. As always, the more i'm lightened of the burden of externals problems (tagging support), the more i can focus on raw functionnality for WMPTSE(like "2."), for the joy of everyone...

Beware of WMP11, i think it's all the lock-out thing again in my view. Please someone just upgrade the WMP11-like skin (http://thevista.ru/files/mutogens/wmp11skin_byTheVista.ru.rar) and we could keep WMP10 with advantages (if a third party extra functionnality is needed to match the WMP11's UI [transparency ?], i see no problem to help)...

Hum, by the way don't hesitate to enlight Paul Thurrott with the existence of WMPTSE. I'm not doing this kind of thing myself, cause i think that's obvious i can't be neutral about my own work 

Quote
Sorry, I did not realise the sensitivity but can certainly understand the frustration.


Don't be afraid bojh, i'm just fighting against lack of simple standard everywhere i can (this one would have cost 10 lines of text, so it's a very very very very lazy developper behaviour). And the fact that we ends up with standard at the end everyway, simple because at one point it become necessary to keep the thing exist. And then History had make its way, and we get the "natural selection" incoherency like " " & "_" meaning for space. Ah, humans

MaB_fr

WMPTSE

Reply #196
Thanks MaB_fr for writing your WMP Tag Extender plugin.

As someone coming from iTunes which has excellent Tag support (even Paul Thurrott uses it in prefrence to WMP as a result! see http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/wmp11.asp), I was shocked by how bad WMP 10 is. Basically if you are not using MP3 then WMP is pretty much uesless.
Don't forget WMA & WMA Lossless.  WAV is also supported, but without internal tagging... of course.  Microsoft has little interest in adding library/tagging support for formats it does not support and ship itself.  Just like I don't expect Apple to add WMA support anytime soon to iPod/iTunes.  This is why plugins like WMPTSE need to exist.  The only thing you can wish for.... is that Microsoft will make WMP 11 (and Vista) easily extensible by add-ons instead of "hacks."

Also, I don't find iTunes to have "excellent tagging support."  No Album Artist, no way to lookup metadata for existing content ripped outside of iTunes, no way to get album art automatically, no WMA Support, only supports iPod, doesn't autodiscover new files, etc.


Actually iTunes for Windows can import unprotect WMA, and it might even be possible to do this on a Mac using the free Flip4Mac codecs.

WMA is not supported by iPod so as far as the majority of the world is concerned WMA is pointless. WAV does not support Tags, AIFF does but WMP does not support reading AIFF tags.

There are loads of third-party addons for iTunes to deal with issues like auto-correcting tags, auto-adding Album Art, etc. etc., indeed it may be possible that there are now more plugins for iTunes than WMP.

WMP and what formats it supports for Tags (built-in)
MP3
WMA

iTunes and what formats it supports for Tags (built-in)
MP3
AAC
M4P
M4A
Apple Lossless
AIFF

My own recent experience of WMP indicates that Microsofts metadata server is full of crap. If I check each track OF THE SAME ALBUM I will get different results for almost each track!

WMPTSE

Reply #197
3. I must ask how widely is used AIFF today... Again, i can't afford to disperse myself too much and as i don't use this format, i'm not naturally willing to spend time coding support for it  (yeah, I AM a lazy coder  )
If it is, at least, as widely used as FLAC, i may kick my butt a bit on this one to do it.


AIFF is I believe the lossless file format that is most cross platform that also supports tags (which eliminates WAV). For example it is supported by iTunes (of course), iPod, Roku SoundBridge, SlimDevices SlimServer, Sonos Digital Music System, and even WMP!!!

I had originally ripped all my CDs in AIFF (at the time I knew WMP could play them but I did not know that Microsoft was so stupid as to support playing them but not reading their tags), I have (for the moment) re-ripped them all in AAC.

By the way, WMP and MCE are not showing the duration (track length) for AAC tracks. Does your plugin provide this information to WMP? WMP does show this for MP3 tracks.

WMPTSE

Reply #198
WMP and what formats it supports for Tags (built-in)
MP3
WMA

iTunes and what formats it supports for Tags (built-in)
MP3
AAC
M4P
M4A
Apple Lossless
AIFF

Does iTunes support raw AAC?

An exact and unbiased list would be:

WMP = MP3 and WMA
iTunes = MP3, MP4¹, ALAC, AIFF

or more complete:
WMP = MP3, WMAStd, WMAStd protected, WMAPro, WMA Lossless, WMA Voice
iTunes = MP3, M4A, M4P, ALAC, AIFF


¹ MP4 = LC-AAC in MP4 container.

WMPTSE

Reply #199
I had originally ripped all my CDs in AIFF (at the time I knew WMP could play them but I did not know that Microsoft was so stupid as to support playing them but not reading their tags), I have (for the moment) re-ripped them all in AAC.
Do note iTunes' AIFF tagging syle is pretty unique (on Windows, at least)... iTunes inserts a RIFF chuck of "ID3" that contains an ID3v2.3 frame for it's metadata.  I don't think the mighty dBPowerAmp even supports reading this metadata.  (I could be wrong.)  Most consumer applications just treat AIFF as an untagged format, like WAV.