DualDisc Options

[Mirage2k]

Is anyone else here worried about DualDisc? The Big Four record companies started releasing albums in this format about a year ago, and they seem to be picking up steam. Bruce Springsteen's "Devils & Dust" album was released in the U.S. exclusively on DualDisc, and it seems that there are probably going to be more exclusive titles like that in the future. Right now Sony seems to be putting some new albums out on DualDisc and also in a DVD and CD combo packages. Unfortunately the DVD and CD combo packages seem to cost $5 - $10 more than the DualDisc!

For anyone who isn't aware of DualDisc, it is a new hacked-together "format" that features a double-sided disc with a DVD on one side and CD-like audio on the other side. The problem is that in order to get the thickness of the entire disc down to 1.5 mm (as per the DVD standard), they had to reduce the thickness of the CD layer to 0.9 mm (the very edge of the lower tolerance of the CD standard). This thin CD layer is unplayable by some CD players, and from reading online it seems like the problem is disproportionally worse for computer drives. Because of the manufacturing variance involves, it seems like there isn't even any way to reliably tell what drive will play DualDiscs and what drive won't, since the smallest variation away from the 0.9 mm thickness could render some DualDiscs unreadable by a drive, while other DualDiscs rip perfectly fine. Because of the 0.9 mm issue, Philips has forbidden DualDisc releases to contain the Compact Disc logo. And because the DualDisc "standard" hovers right at 1.5 mm total thickness, slight variations above 1.5 mm can cause actual physical damage in some slot-loading drives in laptops and car stereos.

Personally I think this is just a move by the record industry to try to force consumers into higher-resolution audio formats that are not easily rippable by current software. DualDisc doesn't offer anything that releasing a two-disc CD and DVD package doesn't, and, from what I've read, actually costs more to manufacture than those two-disc sets to begin with. It seems like they're tricking the customer into buying the album by promising that it will be "CD-compatible," and when it turns out not to be the case, telling the customer that they should be able to play the DVD side perfectly fine. I'm personally boycotting any DualDisc releases and have been telling my friends to do the same.

Any thoughts?

This post has been edited by Mirage2k: Dec 11 2005, 22:06

[spoon]

I think it is a good idea, if they cost the same amount as normal CDs you would have no quarms?

They will not take over (ie would always be able to purcahse the cheaper normal cd) unless they can get them on the same thickness as a normal CD.

Saying that CD / DVD creation is so cheap, why not have two discs in the same case?

This post has been edited by spoon: Dec 11 2005, 22:35

[Mirage2k]

I think it is a good idea, if they cost the same amount as normal CDs you would have no quarms?

They will not take over (ie would always be able to purcahse the cheaper normal cd) unless they can get them on the same thickness as a normal CD.

Well part of the issue is that the record companies (or Sony at least) seem to be pricing their DualDiscs very low, and then inflating the price of the equivalent two-disc CD and DVD release. So you end up having to pay more to get a CD that will be guaranteed to work in your player. And there has already been at least one DualDisc only release (Springsteen's "Devils & Dust").

Saying that CD / DVD creation is so cheap, why not have two discs in the same case?

Exactly. That was the route that some record companies took a few years ago in order to try to stimulate more sales, and it seems to me to be a far better solution than an unreliable DualDisc. My only fear is that the record companies are using the DualDisc in a sort of underhanded way to try to limit customers' ability to rip music to their computer. The fact that they might even damage some slot-loading drives is particularly boneheaded, IMO.

[MuncherOfSpleens]

My only concern is the durability of the CD layer. It reads fine in all of my drives, but it is reportedly more vulnerable to scratches and other damage.

[Mirage2k]

My only concern is the durability of the CD layer.  It reads fine in all of my drives, but it is reportedly more vulnerable to scratches and other damage.

The one DualDisc that I've borrowed from a friend refused to play in either of my CD players (my computer and my stereo). I'm definitely not going to plunk down money on the off chance that another disc might work properly.

The thing about scratches is worrisome too, though.

This post has been edited by Mirage2k: Dec 12 2005, 16:44

[AtaqueEG]

I got one of those.

I was a pain to rip, but I finally suceeded.

I would not have bought it, but it was cheaper than the CD/DVD edition.

I don't really think it is a scheme to discourage ripping, though.

I mean, it is one thing that they don't want you to rip CDs, but this things won't even play! Not even them are that dumb!

[skamp]

I understand that the reliability / longevity of the CD-DA side is an issue, but I don't even play the CD's I buy anymore. I rip them once, right after I bought them, and put them away in a box, safe from dust, handling, light and heat.

[AtaqueEG]

I understand that the reliability / longevity of the CD-DA side is an issue, but I don't even play the CD's I buy anymore. I rip them once, right after I bought them, and put them away in a box, safe from dust, handling, light and heat.

Same here.

Sometimes I wonder why I even buy them

[audioflex]

ive dealt with dual discs before, CD side wouldnt even read on my drives, i ended up having to rip the DVD Audio (also difficult) and using a CUE sheet i found on emule....crazy.

[JeanLuc]

My only fear is that the record companies are using the DualDisc in a sort of underhanded way to try to limit customers' ability to rip music to their computer.  The fact that they might even damage some slot-loading drives is particularly boneheaded, IMO.

Think of DualDisc with Cactus Data Shield on it ...

[Rain]

it is reportedly more vulnerable to scratches and other damage.

Yes that is correct
Sorry to bring this topic back again, but I find DualDisc format to be unnecessary - there are no advantages over the CD and DVD formats. DualDiscs scratch very easily which is why I'm worried - I bought an album that was only available on DualDisc recently. My drive couldn't read the CD layer but surprisingly my old Matsushita drive could and ripped the audio successfully.

I just hope future releases of certain albums aren't DualDisc only because many drives can't even play the CD layer. Durability is also a problem.

This post has been edited by Rain: Feb 19 2006, 00:32

[HotshotGG]

Right now Sony seems to be putting some new albums out on DualDisc and also in a DVD and CD combo packages. Unfortunately the DVD and CD combo packages seem to cost $5 - $10 more than the DualDisc!

Here is the deal. The RIAA being the pain in the asses that they are no they are never going to be able to make any sales off DVD-A discs, because of non-backwards compatibility issues and limited audiophile base. The concept of a DualDisc is genius, because now the listener can have the PCM mix on one side and the 5.1 mix on the other side. It's great if you have a home theater system. The second road block, the assholes didn't make the PCM side Redbook compliant so it won't work with regular CD players either. . The point I am trying to get at I shall now state. The industry has their head shoved so far up their asses and the consumers don't care enough about 5.1 mixes sadly, so it's a loose loose situation. Now that I have silenced the socialist hopefully the conversation can continue

This post has been edited by HotshotGG: Feb 19 2006, 00:56

[karit]

Is there a list of drives that can read the audio side and ones that can not?

As my Toshiba DVD-ROM/CD-RW SD-R2412 can not see the audio but the DVD side is fine