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What do you think of the eviction order by r3mix?
Joe Bloggs
post Oct 1 2001, 17:13
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Eviction order

Is it so bad to have another board about mp3 here? (I'm not saying it's not bad, just want to see what you people think about this)
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Garf
post Oct 1 2001, 18:05
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I understand the worries that the user base is split...it IS something that should be avoided.

The currrent situation is quite bothersome. If we want to keep updated on everything we'd have to read two boards...It's both more effort and more time consuming.

The 'ideal' solution (for me) would be to have the old r3mix forum link through to here and move all discussion over here. Of course, I guess that's not gonna happen.

Still, I really like it here. I find this forum more powerfull and easier to use, even if it's still got some wrinkels here and there.

Oh, and it uses black on white text. If you wear glasses 5 inches thick and spend your life in front of the computer then that is a real blessing wink.gif

Ah well, we can have r3mix and Dibrom fight it out. Arf! Arf!
:battle:

--
GCP

(Also, it's nice to have a board where you can suggest that --r3mix might just not be the perfect solution for everyone.)
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Dibrom
post Oct 1 2001, 21:05
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Garf
Ah well, we can have r3mix and Dibrom fight it out. Arf! Arf!
:battle:


Sorry to disappoint, but this isn't going to happen biggrin.gif

I'm happy with this forum, and I'm going to continue to do my best to work on it. It's a pity if others have a problem with that, but quite frankly, it's not [b]my
problem. smile.gif There should really be no need to have to regulate myself or my ideas to fit in line better with someone else's and I believe that is mostly what this is about. That being said, nobody is forcing anyone to read this or view both forums either.

Further, I've yet to have been contacted privately by Roel about this whole thing, or seen him post about his concerns here. Both of which would have been more appropriate I believe.
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Nic
post Oct 1 2001, 23:18
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r3mix I have always found cumbersome & so hard to wade through to find what I need.I think this forum is so well laid out (and is so much prettier too smile.gif

I rarely use r3mix (and have only ever posted there to tease David Robinson smile.gif So I hope everyone will move from there to here.Its a tall order, but I dont know why they wouldn't (with a reasonable amount of time obviously)

Any way my two penny's worth smile.gif

Cheers & well done again Dibrom,
-Nic
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Garf
post Oct 2 2001, 01:42
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r3mix made another post in that thread

I won't comment on it. I think everyone can read it for themselves and make their own conclusions.

--
GCP
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r3
post Oct 2 2001, 03:21
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<<I'm happy with this forum, and I'm going to continue to do my best to work on it. It's a pity if others have a problem with that, but quite frankly, it's not my problem. smile.gif>>

quite frankly, this is not about YOU. this is about you now unnecesary forcing people to chose a "favorite" forum and turning this is an ordinary "popularity contest".

<<There should really be no need to have to regulate myself or my ideas to fit in line better with someone else's and I believe that is mostly what this is about. That being said, nobody is forcing anyone to read this or view both forums either.

Further, I've yet to have been contacted privately by Roel about this whole thing, or seen him post about his concerns here. Both of which would have been more appropriate I believe.>>

don't talk to me about doing the appropriate thing.

we talked this over privately on the chat and we agreed it would be best to co-operate and help eachother out with the forum, trying to link the two together in a sensible way.

I had no problem supporting your endeavour because I genuinely believed you were the more appropriate/capable person to make a site like this.

I made more than clear it'd be very much against my wishes and to the disadvantage of many to also have a specific mp3 forum here.

That would result in a needless splitup and tearing apart a working community for whatever reason. We left that chat with a positive note, and now I'm here to notice nothing came of it.

Now Dibrom,

- is this a misunderstanding,
- did you forget our conversation or
- is this just you saving your face?

roel.

at least I had the decency three times now to try and contact you, since you never seem to bother and always pin this on me.

this is not my call, this is 100% yours.
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Dibrom
post Oct 2 2001, 03:58
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There are only a few things I have to say about this, and I will not repeat them. I will also post this on r3mix so that everyone has a chance to see.

1. There was never any agreement about anything. Period. Yes, we did discuss linking the forums but the only conclusion that was reached was a "maybe" and a "we'll see". Maybe you somehow misunderstood that to mean that I promised you something. If so, you were mistaken. I thought the issue over, and it did not make sense to me to help perpetuate many of the issues that have made me want to leave the r3mix forum in the past.

2. I am not forcing a split in the community. I am providing an alternative. The only one forcing a split here is you with the assertion that there "can be only one" forum. You are now making people choose between your site and mine, not the other way around. You have twisted this into an issue to where people will feel morally obliged to take sides. I'm not going to be a part of that.

3. Your wishes in this matter are quite frankly not my concern. I have received overwhelmingly positive feedback about this site and only 1 negative comment. You may have received 3 negative comments, and I'm sorry about that, but that isn't enough to justify me trashing this whole thing to keep you happy. I have tried to do the cooperation thing, I've stated my concerns, over and over and over on the r3mix forum to no avail. Instead of wasting my time continuing to do so and pissing people off, I just decided to add an mp3 section to this board as well. This is my right, and I am under no obligation to respect your mp3 forum as the ultimate, unquestioned authority.

4. I made a big mistake. I NEVER should have allowed the presets I created for LAME to have my initials on them. I did this originally to differentiate switches I added from those originally in LAME, but they made it back into the mainline of their own accord in this fashion. This has really led to the idea that there is a whole "Dibrom vs r3mix" ego thing going on here. I don't care about having my name on a preset, all I care about is quality. So in an attempt to put an end to this, I ask Robert to change the name of the presets to something else entirely, something where nobody will be reminded that I have had any part in them at all. Hopefully this will satisfy some.

That's all I have to say on this issue. You can flame me all you like, but its not going to do any good.
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YouriP
post Oct 2 2001, 04:46
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When I first heard about this forum, I thought (and still do) that it was only meant to "replace" the VQF.com BBS, since that was where discussion about any format other than MP3 usually took place. After the shutdown of the main portion of VQF.com (apart from the BBS), it became less and less frequented even by regulars. It was clear it was a dying forum, so the idea to "move up" to a new one like PM was a good idea. I am very happy this forum opened up and seeing VQF.com fade away (but not forgotten), since it will make for a more centralized discussion of the specific formats and will keep people from visiting two different fora to stay on top of all developments. I can understand that it's kind of a shame there is no place for people to discuss VQF anymore now, but we have to face the fact that the VQF format is really dead (save for a few developments that may occur in the future, like 192kbs encoding) and since VQF technology is incorporated in the AAC standard, it has not been completely thrown away, and development on VQF can still continue within the AAC format (another reason why I adore AAC, but that's besides the point).

Getting back to the idea of two different fora on MP3 - there are other forums regarding specific audio formats out there besides r3mix. What to think of the FAAC forum, basically the place to discuss AAC? What about the tens of MPC forums out there? Have they all asked Dibrom to close his sections just because there were forums that dealt with the same issues out there?

I see several benefits and few problems arising when new forums dealing with the same topics come up: for one, there is the benefit that people who do not know about a certain forum (for example, someone doesn't know about r3mix, but does find out about this forum) will be able to post about the topic that interests them, i.e. they won't have to hunt around to find a suitable forum as much. In effect, they will have a bigger chance to find a forum where they can discuss "their format" with intelligent, knowledgeable people. Granted, linking the MP3 sections of this board to r3mix's would also inherit this advantage, but that brings me to the next point why two seperate fora on "high quality MP3" is a good thing - basically (at least so it appears to many people), r3mix is solely about Lame using the --r3mix preset. The MP3 forums on PM are about MP3 using any kind of encoder, and even MP3Pro - definitely not the main part of discussion on the r3mix forum.

I do not care about the "r3mix vs. Dibrom" issue. Yes, r3mix owns the r3mix.net forum, Dibrom owns PM. So what? As long as neither silences anyone who disagrees with their ideas, I see no problem with either of them. Though it does seem that Dibrom is less biased than r3mix regarding their presets, I do have to praise r3mix in that he didn't ever, as he said, censor anyone for having different ideals, and the fact that he is just very defensive of his settings - a trait that is important to have when you wish to set a standard. For that same reason, it is equally important to have people who will want to oppose the --r3mix preset with all their heart. That's the basis of true discussion - imagine what it'd be like if everytime r3mix posted an update to his preset, everyone would say something like "Oooh, yeah that's good r3mix! I'm getting perfect encodes! You're doing a great job!" Such sucking up will get us nowhere. We need skeptics and opponents in a discussion in order to set a true, unbiased standard. Having two forums dealing with HQ MP3 gives us that.

As for the people disliking either forum's color scheme: ever thought of setting your browser up so that it will always override custom colors?
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Agent86
post Oct 2 2001, 05:15
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I just have a small comment on the DM series of presets.

There are some good reasons not to change the name of them.

Namely:

1) You did a lot of the work on them, you should get some credit
2) People already know them, and they'd have to learn a new one

If you STILL want to change the names, may I reccommend some? Perhaps something to reflect all of the changes going on...

project-mayhem-standard
project-mayhem-xtreme
project-mayhem-insane

With the idea that most of the discussion on them will wind up taking place in these forums (for better or for worse) and will be the result of this community's input and suggestions, why not name it after everyone contributing to it?

That is all smile.gif.

- Agent 86
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Dibrom
post Oct 2 2001, 06:14
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Agent86:

About the whole --dm-preset thing. I just think its a good idea to change the name. Many of the people who were originally interested in these settings and the work I was doing unfortunately are not interested anymore because apparently they think this whole thing has been about having my name on a preset and my ego or something to that effect. Since that is so far from the truth, and I am tired of this entire situation, I'd rather just change them. I appreciate your suggestions for a new title, but I would rather that the switches just be a "standard" within LAME and nothing more than that. I don't want to attach any specific person or group of people with the title of the switch. I have already asked robert to change the names, perhaps something like --vbr-preset would do, I don't know quite yet. We will probably talk it over before changes are made.

Also, since my presets have never actually been included in a beta, or "stable" version of LAME, a name change shouldn't really cause any problems.

Other than that, there is no longer a point to this thread. Roel, who initiated this discussion (not directly on this site but indirectly by posting on his) has closed the relevant thread on his board, and I think it is best to do the same here. There are far more important things to do than waste time over this nonsense in my opinion. I'm sorry to even have had this discussion come up here, but hopefully this will mark the end of these type of issues around here.

Thread closed.
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