Help...just want to load my cd's Options

[Heideana]

Hi...I'm a newbie and have managed to EAC up and running, but I'm not sure if I want to extract as a single wav file with cue file or individual track files? I'm not worried about burning cd's right now and I'm more interesting in getting all of my CD's loaded onto a hard disk. I'm planning on using windows media player version 10, although it doesn't seem to pick-up all the cd data from my EAC extracted files.

Thanks for any help and/or suggestions

[grommet]

If you are ripping to individual "WAV" files... you don't see any "CD data" since general WAV files have no tags. So, if you wanted to stay with WAV, you'd need to manually update the WMP with library information for all your files... and it would only be stored inside WMP.

It would be better to use WMA Lossless if you plan on sticking with WMP. (There is little risk here, since you could always convert it to another format later.) You can also use FLAC, but you'd need to install a few things for that to work. (A FLAC codec and the WMPTSE hack, so WMP can see the FLAC tags.)

Good luck.

[esa372]

...I'm not sure if I want to extract as a single wav file with cue file or individual track files?

Album images (single files with cue sheets) are generally for archiving. Having the individual track files is more flexible and would most likely suit all your needs.

As grommet has pointed out, it might be better to go with a lossless codec (like WMA Lossless or FLAC), not only for the tagging benefits, but also for the fact that the file sizes would be greatly reduced - thus saving a great deal of hard drive space.

Have fun!

[Eli]

see the link in my sig below for a guide

[wylistener]

...I'm not sure if I want to extract as a single wav file with cue file or individual track files?

Album images (single files with cue sheets) are generally for archiving. Having the individual track files is more flexible and would most likely suit all your needs.

I think it's better to at least rip to single WAV+CUE because you can always use a free utility like ACDIR to break out the files into individual WAVs (and subsequent individual MP3s) if necessary. However, if you rip to individual WAVs as the first step, it's a little more problematic to take those individual WAVs and join them back together again---especially if one doesn't save off a CUE file as a reference.

This post has been edited by wylistener: Jul 10 2006, 17:56

[greynol]

However, if you rip to individual WAVs as the first step, it's a little more problematic to take those individual WAVs and join them back together again---especially if one doesn't save off a CUE file as a reference.

Not if you use the right tools and include the track number in the filename.

I used to save images and cues of everything. I now save individual tracks. There are benefits for going in either direction.

[wylistener]

However, if you rip to individual WAVs as the first step, it's a little more problematic to take those individual WAVs and join them back together again---especially if one doesn't save off a CUE file as a reference.

Not if you use the right tools and include the track number in the filename.

I used to save images and cues of everything. I now save individual tracks. There are benefits for going in either direction.

Which tool(s) will reassemble individual tracks back into the identical single WAV? (The context here is something simple like ACDIR and not elaborate wav editors like SoundForge, WaveLab, AdobeAudition, etc.) And do the utilities need the original CUE or can they regenerate a new CUE based on the individual WAVs?

Also, most people that rip to individual WAVs don't bother to take the extra step and save the CD's CUE file. (Or they're not aware of importance of saving the CUE file.)

Another thing if one is picky: While it's mathematically possible to regenerate a CUE file from the byte sizes of individual WAVs, it MAY NOT be the same as a CUE file that was created by scanning the actual CD. If the CD has INDEX seek points, you cannot recover those from the individual WAV because that info is lost. The same idea applies to metadata like ISRC codes. (That type of metadata may be important to you or your music library managment system.)

Another consideration is the target audio device:

• single WAV+CUE: Foobar2000, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Daemon Tools, etc
• individual WAVs: Apple ipod, Sonos, etc

If someone has multiple target uses for their digital music than he'll probably have several copies of his music in multiple formats (single and individual WAVs, FLAC and MP3, etc.) The question is which file strategy is the easiest as the starting reference copy for all other subsequent batch conversions to act on?! Based on the simple freeware software tools available, I think it's the single wav + CUE (or equivalent Monkey APE, Wavpack, etc.)

[wylistener]

Hi...I'm a newbie and have managed to EAC up and running, but I'm not sure if I want to extract as a single wav file with cue file or individual track files? I'm not worried about burning cd's right now and I'm more interesting in getting all of my CD's loaded onto a hard disk. I'm planning on using windows media player version 10, although it doesn't seem to pick-up all the cd data from my EAC extracted files.

Your question can be interpreted in different ways so not sure if it's a metadata-tagging question or a playback behavior question...

If you're trying to get your EAC extracted files to behave in MS Win Media Player (automatically show album art, titles, etc) exactly like inserting the physical CD into the drive, you'll want to rip to a single WAV + CUE (EAC Alt+F7). You then use Daemon Tools (or Alcohol) to mount the the CUE file as a virtual drive and then point MS Win Media Player to that drive. This technique will work in iTunes also. After mounting the CD, you can even "rip" this virtual CD to individual tracks if you want.

If you simply need intelligent tagging to happen, then it doesn't matter if it's single wav or individual wavs. In this case, no virtual drive mapping software (Daemon Tools / Alcohol) is needed.

This post has been edited by wylistener: Jul 11 2006, 00:49

[greynol]

Which tool(s) will reassemble individual tracks back into the identical single WAV? (The context here is something simple like ACDIR and not elaborate wav editors like SoundForge, WaveLab, AdobeAudition, etc.)

"The" context here or your context here?

Appending waves with a wave editor is hardly elaborate. But here are some other programs that do the job:
WavGlue
Addawav
WAV Tools
It's also very easy to mount an image of separate wave files and rip it.

And do the utilities need the original CUE or can they regenerate a new CUE based on the individual WAVs?

WAV Tools will generate a new cue.
If you mount an image, your ripping program can create a new cue.
I've also written a batch file that will create an single wave cue when fed either a noncompliant, corrected gaps or leftout gaps cue based on the wave files that are called out.
Shntool can also create a single wave cue based on individual waves though unlike my batch, it will not create anything other than 01 indices.

Also, most people that rip to individual WAVs don't bother to take the extra step and save the CD's CUE file. (Or they're not aware of importance of saving the CUE file.)

Are you sure about this? Did you conduct a poll or something?
The importance of saving a CUE file when ripping separate waves is debatable. I suppose I should also mention that EAC is incapable of getting secure gap information from many drives.

Another thing if one is picky:

...as if your "something simple" comment wasn't picky.

While it's mathematically possible to regenerate a CUE file from the byte sizes of individual WAVs, it MAY NOT be the same as a CUE file that was created by scanning the actual CD. If the CD has INDEX seek points, you cannot recover those from the individual WAV because that info is lost. The same idea applies to metadata like ISRC codes. (That type of metadata may be important to you or your music library managment system.)

Like I said, the importance of non-audio data is debatable. I suppose this is a good time to also mention that EAC can't faithfully extract ISRC codes with some drives. Besides all this, there is no reason why a single wave CUE can't also be created using EAC.

Another consideration is the target audio device:

• single WAV+CUE: Foobar2000, Slim Devices Squeezebox, Daemon Tools, etc
• individual WAVs: Apple ipod, Sonos, etc

If someone has multiple target uses for their digital music than he'll probably have several copies of his music in multiple formats (single and individual WAVs, FLAC and MP3, etc.) The question is which file strategy is the easiest as the starting reference copy for all other subsequent batch conversions to act on?! Based on the simple freeware software tools available, I think it's the single wav + CUE (or equivalent Monkey APE, Wavpack, etc.)

As I mentioned in my previous post, there are benefits for going in either direction.

The question isn't which file strategy is the easiest based on an arbitrary starting reference that you chose.

I do appreciate that you have strong opinions and have found methods that work for you but I find your desire to limit the discussion to your point of view and way of doing things bothersome and somewhat closed minded.

The fact that the user wants to use WMP 10 should clue you in. Many of your comments have been way off-base and your advice is more complicated than it needs to be. This is pretty ironic considering that you wanted to limit my reponse to something simple like ACDIR earlier.

My advice would be to rip individual tracks to whatever format the original poster finds appropriate (lossy or lossless). If EAC has been configured to use an external compressor, let it also handle the tagging. If ripping to wave and converting with a separate program, use either that program or a separate tag editor to add tags. This is ripping, not rocket science.

[wylistener]

Which tool(s) will reassemble individual tracks back into the identical single WAV? (The context here is something simple like ACDIR and not elaborate wav editors like SoundForge, WaveLab, AdobeAudition, etc.)

"The" context here or your context here?

Sorry... by reading the tone of your response, I just now noticed my first note about "the context" sounded like some pompous lecture about the original poster's intention. You suspected correctly: the "context here" was MY OWN for my questions to you. It was unrelated to the context of the thread. I was just wondering for my own curiosity what the tools were. When I looked at wav combining utils before, they didn't manage "CUE" files---I had to fire up Sound Forge and manually join all the WAVs together.

It's also very easy to mount an image of separate wave files and rip it.

Ok, when I had a CUE album that pointed to the individual WAV files of that album, I couldn't mount it in Daemon Tools or Alcohol. What's the trick to do this?

Also, most people that rip to individual WAVs don't bother to take the extra step and save the CD's CUE file. (Or they're not aware of importance of saving the CUE file.)

Are you sure about this? Did you conduct a poll or something?

I'm new to HA community and I didn't conduct a poll. I'm simply basing my observation on my friends that rip individual WAVs. None of them bother to save the CUE; it's not an automatic/intuitive step to save the CUE; it's not blatantly obvious that it's even important---not everyone cares about INDEXs beyond 02. (Which supports your point that it's even debateable whether it is important...but more on that later.)

The importance of saving a CUE file when ripping separate waves is debatable. I suppose I should also mention that EAC is incapable of getting secure gap information from many drives.

You could mention that and it's helpful information --- but now you're getting into the hardware capabilities of the drives. I was only trying to point out the difference between the textual contents of the original CUE scanned from a physical CD vs the CUE artificially reconstructed at a later time from individual wav files.

Another thing if one is picky:

...as if your "something simple" comment wasn't picky.

Again, I was picky about "something simple" because *I* was curious about utilities that were out there.

I do appreciate that you have strong opinions and have found methods that work for you but I find your desire to limit the discussion to your point of view and way of doing things bothersome and somewhat closed minded.

I'm not closed minded about this. It's a total misunderstanding because my reply was muddled up with 2 separate conversations. The 1st conversation was trying to give pros/cons to the original poster's question. The 2nd conversation was my own pursuit of education about what tools were available---this is where I was trying to "limit the discussion". The 2nd conversation makes it seem like I'm trying to hijaak this thread and decree that my way is the only way.

My female friend rips straight to iPod (no WAV, no FLAC, no archiving). That workflow makes sense for her and she shouldn't change it. I'm not trying to change the world here.

The fact that the user wants to use WMP 10 should clue you in. Many of your comments have been way off-base and your advice is more complicated than it needs to be. This is pretty ironic considering that you wanted to limit my reponse to something simple like ACDIR earlier.

My advice would be to rip individual tracks to whatever format the original poster finds appropriate (lossy or lossless). If EAC has been configured to use an external compressor, let it also handle the tagging. If ripping to wave and converting with a separate program, use either that program or a separate tag editor to add tags. This is ripping, not rocket science.

I had to read this a few times to get the joke. I guess WMP10 is considered a sign of unsophistication?! And the savvy folks use Foobar2k or something like that? If so, yes, that flew right by me when I read the original poster's question.

So greynol, the bottom line is that you know more about hardware drives than I do. You know more about EAC than I do. You also know more about all the various audio utilities than I do. I have no desire to go head to head with you on all these matters so please don't take any of my comments as insults to your advice. Your advice is wise and I agree with it.

What I wanted to make clear was that individual WAVs without the original CUE may not be the same as the original CUE. I concede that the value of extra metadata is debateable---this aspect of it can be beat to death. However, someone could interpret the phrase, "advantages to either approach" as if both approaches were equivalent forwards & backwards--- this is not 100% true.

[greynol]

wylistener:
Please allow me to clear the air and apologize for being harsh earlier. It is apparent that I took your comments the wrong way.

Ok, when I had a CUE album that pointed to the individual WAV files of that album, I couldn't mount it in Daemon Tools or Alcohol. What's the trick to do this?

I make a new CUE sheet based on the individual files that contains no index points other than 01. You've probably noticed that noncompliant CUEs won't work with Daemon Tools or Alcohol (I use the latter).

You could mention that and it's helpful information --- but now you're getting into the hardware capabilities of the drives. I was only trying to point out the difference between the textual contents of the original CUE scanned from a physical CD vs the CUE artificially reconstructed at a later time from individual wav files.

You are absolutely right about this, especially as this relates to tagging since CUE sheets often contain useful text information.

I had to read this a few times to get the joke. I guess WMP10 is considered a sign of unsophistication?! And the savvy folks use Foobar2k or something like that? If so, yes, that flew right by me when I read the original poster's question.

Not unsophistication but I am guilty here of being terse and even cantankerous. As you already know, WMP10 wasn't designed to deal with images and cue sheets. If there is some sort of hack or plugin for it like there is for Winamp, I am ignorant of it. As for the joke, it was born out of my misunderstanding of your intentions in you previous post.

What I wanted to make clear was that individual WAVs without the original CUE may not be the same as the original CUE. I concede that the value of extra metadata is debateable---this aspect of it can be beat to death. However, someone could interpret the phrase, "advantages to either approach" as if both approaches were equivalent forwards & backwards--- this is not 100% true.

I suppose someone could interpret my statement differently, but I was actually agreeing with you: separate tracks are good for some things and single images are good for others.

[esa372]

Which tool(s) will reassemble individual tracks back into the identical single WAV? (The context here is something simple...)

Foobar (v0.9x) can do it...

[sicpuppy_123]

Hi there.
New to HA, and brain is swimming with info right now, so please excuse me if i missed something.
My question is, which sort of wav file does the "WAV" button on the left of EAC's GUI generate? "with gaps", "without gaps" or "corrected gaps"?
thanks in advance...

[greynol]

Hi there.
New to HA, and brain is swimming with info right now, so please excuse me if i missed something.
My question is, which sort of wav file does the "WAV" button on the left of EAC's GUI generate? "with gaps", "without gaps" or "corrected gaps"?
thanks in advance...

If you haven't first detected gaps (F4), then tracks will be extracted with gaps.

If you did tell EAC to detect gaps, then the gap behavior will be whatever is selected at the bottom of the Action menu.

"With gaps" (appended to the end of the previous track) is the standard. Most, if not all, ripping programs extract tracks this way.