Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?, Black List |
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Which Software still uses worse MP3-Encoders?, Black List |
 Jul 25 2006, 21:56
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#1
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Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 16-May 05 Member No.: 22095  |
hi,
for me mp3 is still a good codec. i always use the lame codec to rip audio-cds. but why are there still so many people who rip with worse mp3-encoders like xing, blade ... and in a bitrate of 128kbit? what programs still use this encoders? is there a black list of ripping-programs which a newbie should better avoid, if not i make a start: musicmatch jukebox: unknown windows media player: unknown apple itunes: unknown realplayer: unknown freeware: cdex: unknown audiograbber: unknown sry, i don't have the time at the moment, i will complete my list in the next days... . cya  .
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Jul 25 2006, 22:11
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#2
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Group: Members Posts: 92 Joined: 18-November 04 From: Germany Member No.: 18211 |
CDex and audiograbber are using lame and can be configured to use command lines. The four above are all using their own mp3 encoder.
-------------------- portable: 128 kbps cbr AAC
local: -7 FLAC |
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Jul 25 2006, 22:11
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#3
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Group: Members Posts: 122 Joined: 9-March 06 From: NRW, Germany Member No.: 28371 |
WMP uses FhG (check properties of C:\Windows\System32\l3codecp.acm)
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Jul 25 2006, 22:14
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#4
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 Group: Members Posts: 381 Joined: 9-April 06 From: Czech Republic Member No.: 29311 |
new Media player uses fhg fastenc and i'm sure MMJB too. I think realplayer now uses a modified Xing with short blocks (maybe im wrong). Only itunes uses a crappy encoder from which is better stay away.
J.M. |
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Jul 25 2006, 23:12
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#5
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 Server Admin Group: Admin Posts: 4427 Joined: 24-September 01 Member No.: 13 |
QUOTE (sharp @ Jul 25 2006, 22:56)  hi, but why are there still so many people who rip with worse mp3-encoders like xing, blade ... and in a bitrate of 128kbit? a) What proof do you have that (recent) Xing is a bad encoder? b) What proof do you have that 128kbps would not be enough? |
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Jul 25 2006, 23:16
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#6
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 Group: Members Posts: 1018 Joined: 27-September 03 From: Cape Town Member No.: 9042 |
QUOTE (Garf @ Jul 25 2006, 14:12) a) What proof do you have that (recent) Xing is a bad encoder? I agree. While LAME is good - that doesn't mean that everything else is bad.b) What proof do you have that 128kbps would not be enough? For the record, MMJB uses fastenc - or at least the last version I tried did. -------------------- Simulate your radar: http://www.brooker.co.za/fers/
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Jul 26 2006, 01:30
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#7
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 Group: Members Posts: 862 Joined: 3-June 02 From: USA Member No.: 2204 |
The problem isn't just a particular encoder that's used but the settings the program places on the encoder such as Audacity with lame_enc.dll not using Joint Stereo, and from what I can remember (it's been many months) AudioGrabber was screwing up LAME settings. I don't trust rippers to use my preferred settings because they could inject some bullshit that I don't want and which isn't a recommended settings while encoding which is why I rely soly upon command line encoders via one of Speek's Frontends.
Edit: And to add I've heard a few encodings made with a newer XING encoder and was delighted with the quality. This post has been edited by Andavari: Jul 26 2006, 01:32 |
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Jul 26 2006, 09:51
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#8
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Group: Members Posts: 122 Joined: 9-March 06 From: NRW, Germany Member No.: 28371 |
How about a listening test featuring these implementations?
Xing, Apple's mp3 encoder, FhG and LAME? Btw. where can I find a program using Xing? |
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Jul 26 2006, 09:53
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#9
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Group: Members Posts: 381 Joined: 9-April 06 From: Czech Republic Member No.: 29311 |
QUOTE (LaserSokrates @ Jul 26 2006, 10:51) How about a listening test featuring these implementations? Xing, Apple's mp3 encoder, FhG and LAME? Btw. where can I find a program using Xing? the new Xing with short blocks is open-source and can be downloaded at Rarewares under MP3 as "Helix mp3enc v5.1"  J.M. |
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Jul 26 2006, 10:02
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#10
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Group: Members Posts: 122 Joined: 9-March 06 From: NRW, Germany Member No.: 28371 |
Ah, thank you. I forgot that.
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Jul 26 2006, 10:45
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#11
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 Group: Members Posts: 3353 Joined: 6-July 03 From: Sachsen (DE) Member No.: 7609 |
The last time xing was tested (about 2 years ago i think) it came out quite good.
-------------------- I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.
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 Jul 26 2006, 11:10
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#12
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Group: Members Posts: 312 Joined: 30-September 05 From: London, Europe Member No.: 24805 |
According to this topic the iTunes MP3 encoder was improved not too long ago.
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Jul 26 2006, 11:17
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#13
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Group: Members Posts: 191 Joined: 6-February 02 From: 310 Member No.: 1273 |
i think itunes uses FHG too ?
realplayer bought up xing so im pretty sure they use a modified xing encoder. |
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Jul 26 2006, 18:59
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#14
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Group: Members Posts: 1806 Joined: 9-October 05 From: Dormagen, Germany Member No.: 25015 |
QUOTE (jmartis @ Jul 25 2006, 23:14) new Media player uses fhg fastenc ... What's the WMP version exactly that uses fastenc? -------------------- lossyWAV -P --altpreset | FLAC -8 (379 kbps)
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Jul 26 2006, 19:04
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#15
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 Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 149 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3011 |
Audiograbber is not bundled with any mp3 encoder. It's recommended to use Lame which is configured for internally but it can use Xing, Fraunhofer etc.
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Jul 26 2006, 19:45
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#16
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Group: Members Posts: 381 Joined: 9-April 06 From: Czech Republic Member No.: 29311 |
QUOTE (halb27 @ Jul 26 2006, 19:59) QUOTE (jmartis @ Jul 25 2006, 23:14) new Media player uses fhg fastenc ... What's the WMP version exactly that uses fastenc? i think Media Player 10 (edit- oops, or 11??) uses fhg ACM v3.3.0.44, which happens to be fastenc (vey fast). WMP 9 used fhg ACM v1.x (which seems to be similar to the Radium hack v1.2.0.63, very slow and with JS bug) J.M. edit- it really seems to be WMP11 that uses fastenc (if you have WMP installed, you can check the version of "l3codecp.acm" in Windows/system32) This post has been edited by jmartis: Jul 26 2006, 19:56 |
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Jul 26 2006, 23:03
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#17
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Group: Members Posts: 1806 Joined: 9-October 05 From: Dormagen, Germany Member No.: 25015 |
QUOTE (jmartis @ Jul 26 2006, 20:45) i think Media Player 10 (edit- oops, or 11??) uses fhg ACM v3.3.0.44, which happens to be fastenc (vey fast). WMP 9 used fhg ACM v1.x (which seems to be similar to the Radium hack v1.2.0.63, very slow and with JS bug) J.M. edit- it really seems to be WMP11 that uses fastenc (if you have WMP installed, you can check the version of "l3codecp.acm" in Windows/system32) So essentially FhG ACM v3.3.0.44 = fastenc? Do you conclude from the encoding speed that it's fastenc? Or do you have more insight? Out of curiosity I'd like to try an original FhG fastenc, and for that I'd install WMP 10 or 11. -------------------- lossyWAV -P --altpreset | FLAC -8 (379 kbps)
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Jul 26 2006, 23:29
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#18
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 Group: Members Posts: 479 Joined: 8-January 06 From: Earth Member No.: 26978 |
QUOTE (halb27 @ Jul 26 2006, 18:03) Out of curiosity I'd like to try an original FhG fastenc, and for that I'd install WMP 10 or 11. fastencc.exe is on reallyrarewaresThere is no need to install any version of WMP, you can get l3codecp.acm by extracting the installer with something like 7zip. I didn't realize v3.3x was fastenc based.. it makes sense to me now that I think about it though. Xing 1.5 is findable with google (if you know what to look for ). Wow that baby is fast.
-------------------- http://www.geocities.com/gameplaya15143
aoTuVb4.51Lancer-q0-lowpass99 lame3.93.1-q5-V9-lowpass16-resample44-nspsytune plusV.. the sbr killer |
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Jul 27 2006, 04:35
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#19
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Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 16-December 03 Member No.: 10473 |
I will on the odd occasion use LAME or MMJB, but I usually use itunes vbr highest quality, 160 kbps+ for obviously so-so recordings or stuff I don't care so much about, 192+ kbps for other stuff. It's very convenient for use with my ipod. I'm satisfied with it.
 QUOTE (Maurits @ Jul 26 2006, 02:10) According to this topic the iTunes MP3 encoder was improved not too long ago.
This post has been edited by Steve999: Jul 27 2006, 04:37 |
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Jul 27 2006, 07:14
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#20
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 Group: Members Posts: 953 Joined: 27-May 05 Member No.: 22329 |
QUOTE (gameplaya15143 @ Jul 26 2006, 23:29) QUOTE (halb27 @ Jul 26 2006, 18:03) Out of curiosity I'd like to try an original FhG fastenc, and for that I'd install WMP 10 or 11. There is no need to install any version of WMP, you can get l3codecp.acm by extracting the installer with something like 7zip. I didn't realize v3.3x was fastenc based.. it makes sense to me now that I think about it though. Xing 1.5 is findable with google (if you know what to look for ). Wow that baby is fast.I cannot find Xing latest versions. All that comes up aer HA threads :S e: I found Helix on rarewares. I presume you encode using hmp3.exe, but what are the command line switches ? (I am using foo as a frontend) This post has been edited by tool++: Jul 27 2006, 07:18 -------------------- hi
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Jul 27 2006, 07:59
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#21
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Group: Members Posts: 1806 Joined: 9-October 05 From: Dormagen, Germany Member No.: 25015 |
QUOTE (tool++ @ Jul 27 2006, 08:14) e: I found Helix on rarewares. I presume you encode using hmp3.exe, but what are the command line switches ? There is a good thread about Helix, and a very good setting level found is V120 -X2 -HF2 -SBT450 -TX0 This is VBR yielding an average bitrate of something like 200 kbps. Helix' quality seems to be very good as level found in an intensive test. My own experience concerning my tonal standard problem samples (harp40_1, herding_calls, trumpet): they get at the not-at-all-annoying level with this setting. This is very good as usually it requires at least 224 kbps CBR or ABR, and Fraunhofer VBR mode as well as Lame VBR (prior to 3.98a3) have problems with these samples. This post has been edited by halb27: Jul 27 2006, 08:01 -------------------- lossyWAV -P --altpreset | FLAC -8 (379 kbps)
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Jul 27 2006, 09:20
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#22
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Group: Members Posts: 381 Joined: 9-April 06 From: Czech Republic Member No.: 29311 |
QUOTE (halb27 @ Jul 27 2006, 00:03) So essentially FhG ACM v3.3.0.44 = fastenc? Do you conclude from the encoding speed that it's fastenc? Or do you have more insight? Out of curiosity I'd like to try an original FhG fastenc, and for that I'd install WMP 10 or 11. I checked the lowpass, short block usage, bit reservoir etc... and it happens to be very similar to FastEnc (and speed also) QUOTE (gameplaya15143 @ Jul 27 2006, 00:29) fastencc.exe is on reallyrarewares I always hate when someone says that. The "fastencc102.exe" is NOT the same as real FastEnc!! "Real" FastEnc does not have stereo collapse bug even in fast mode and also the fastencc102 introduces more noise on some problem samples (Deploration...) J.M. This post has been edited by jmartis: Jul 27 2006, 09:37 |
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Jul 27 2006, 10:37
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#23
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Group: Members Posts: 1806 Joined: 9-October 05 From: Dormagen, Germany Member No.: 25015 |
QUOTE (jmartis @ Jul 27 2006, 10:20) QUOTE (halb27 @ Jul 27 2006, 00:03) So essentially FhG ACM v3.3.0.44 = fastenc? Do you conclude from the encoding speed that it's fastenc? Or do you have more insight? Out of curiosity I'd like to try an original FhG fastenc, and for that I'd install WMP 10 or 11. I checked the lowpass, short block usage, bit reservoir etc... and it happens to be very similar to FastEnc (and speed also) QUOTE (gameplaya15143 @ Jul 27 2006, 00:29) fastencc.exe is on reallyrarewares I always hate when someone says that. The "fastencc102.exe" is NOT the same as real FastEnc!! "Real" FastEnc does not have stereo collapse bug even in fast mode and also the fastencc102 introduces more noise on some problem samples (Deploration...) J.M. Thanks a lot. -------------------- lossyWAV -P --altpreset | FLAC -8 (379 kbps)
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Aug 1 2006, 02:58
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#24
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Group: Members Posts: 479 Joined: 8-January 06 From: Earth Member No.: 26978 |
QUOTE (tool++ @ Jul 27 2006, 02:14) I cannot find Xing latest versions. Like I said, you have to know how to find it (hint: "zip").All that comes up aer HA threads :S QUOTE (jmartis @ Jul 27 2006, 04:20) I always hate when someone says that. The "fastencc102.exe" is NOT the same as real FastEnc!! "Real" FastEnc does not have stereo collapse bug even in fast mode and also the fastencc102 introduces more noise on some problem samples (Deploration...) I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for the enlightenment. But out of the fhg encoders known as 'fastenc' that I have tested, they all seem to perform similarly.
-------------------- http://www.geocities.com/gameplaya15143
aoTuVb4.51Lancer-q0-lowpass99 lame3.93.1-q5-V9-lowpass16-resample44-nspsytune plusV.. the sbr killer |
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Sep 24 2006, 09:59
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#25
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Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 31-August 06 Member No.: 34662 |
One of the main reasons why these programs use encoders besides LAME is not because they are bad programs, but because of licensing issues.
This post has been edited by Hellion: Sep 24 2006, 10:00 |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 9th February 2010 - 18:34 |
