What is "time resolution"? |
What is "time resolution"? |
Oct 5 2006, 21:50
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#1
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 1983 Joined: 4-January 04 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 10933 |
So I've become involved in a rather colorful argument (I'm Publius in the thread) with somebody on stevehoffman.tv. The original thread revolved around shooting down an old audiophile canard, about how subsample delays cannot be represented in PCM. In the course of that debate, I've begun to question a couple things.
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Oct 9 2006, 15:24
Post
#2
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![]() ReplayGain developer Group: Developer Posts: 4588 Joined: 5-November 01 From: Yorkshire, UK Member No.: 409 |
Here are some nice pictures...
I worked at 16-bits throughout. I started at 441kHz (i.e. 10x CD sample rate). I generated a single impulse. To prove the point, I also generated a second impulse one sample later on the other stereo channel. This is the left hand pair of plots. I resampled to 44.1kHz (i.e. CD sample rate). The result is shown in the middle pair of plots. Interestingly, Cool Edit Pro's visual interpolation hints at what is represented by those samples - i.e. a 1/10th of a sample time delay between the two channels. I resampled back to 441kHz. The result is shown in the right hand pair of plots. The peaks of the waveforms are clearly in the correct place relative to each other. Time resolution equivalent to 1/10th of a sample at 44.1kHz clearly survives this sample rate. Of course the peaks are low amplitude (less energy) and longer (spread out in the time domain) - but this is just what happens when you low pass filter a click. So, this is a simple, repeatable example proving the sub-sample accuracy of sampled systems, without a sine wave in sight! Cheers, David. |
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Axon What is "time resolution"? Oct 5 2006, 21:50
benski Subsample delays are relatively easy to implement ... Oct 5 2006, 22:04
Axon Well, duh. I showed in that thread that 1/20,000 ... Oct 5 2006, 22:19
krabapple QUOTE (Axon @ Oct 5 2006, 16:50) So I... Oct 5 2006, 22:28
Mike Giacomelli QUOTE (Axon @ Oct 5 2006, 13:50) Is it ev... Oct 5 2006, 22:57
ChiGung Yo, that was me (felimid)
QUOTE Is there any meani... Oct 5 2006, 23:07
Axon QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 5 2006, 17:07) Yo, t... Oct 6 2006, 00:11
legg AFAIK, time resolution is most commonly used to re... Oct 6 2006, 00:28
Woodinville QUOTE (Axon @ Oct 5 2006, 13:50) So I... Oct 5 2006, 23:20
ChiGung QUOTE ("woodinville")The first issue is ... Oct 6 2006, 00:46
Mike Giacomelli QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 5 2006, 16:46) QUOTE... Oct 6 2006, 02:10

ChiGung QUOTE (Mike Giacomelli @ Oct 6 2006, 02:1... Oct 6 2006, 04:30

Mike Giacomelli QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 5 2006, 20:30) QUOTE... Oct 6 2006, 06:27
krabapple QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 5 2006, 19:46) QUOTE... Oct 6 2006, 06:21
Woodinville QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 5 2006, 16:46) Howev... Oct 6 2006, 08:26
Woodinville Well, considered for Guassian vs. Gaussian,
dt * ... Oct 6 2006, 00:35
kjoonlee Does "higher sampling rates mean higher tempo... Oct 6 2006, 00:47
ChiGung QUOTE (kjoonlee @ Oct 6 2006, 00:47) Does... Oct 6 2006, 00:57
kwwong QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 5 2006, 18:57) QUOTE... Oct 7 2006, 05:12
2Bdecided ChiGung,
You can prove sub-sample time domain acc... Oct 6 2006, 10:30
ChiGung QUOTE We're assuming the signal is band limite... Oct 6 2006, 16:32
krabapple QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 6 2006, 11:32) I can... Oct 6 2006, 16:54

ChiGung QUOTE But perhaps for starters, you can describe i... Oct 6 2006, 17:08

krabapple QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 6 2006, 12:08) QUOTE... Oct 6 2006, 21:11

MedO QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 6 2006, 18:08) Look.... Oct 7 2006, 10:43
Mike Giacomelli QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 6 2006, 08:32) QUOTE... Oct 6 2006, 20:54
Axon Okay, so this has gone completely f*cking off topi... Oct 6 2006, 17:49
krabapple QUOTE (Axon @ Oct 6 2006, 12:49) Okay, so... Oct 6 2006, 20:51
Canar QUOTE Ask yourself:
"is there any meaningful ... Oct 6 2006, 21:20
Canar Exactly, kwwong. ChiGung, consider this: In the co... Oct 7 2006, 08:04
cabbagerat QUOTE (MedO @ Oct 7 2006, 01:43) No, ther... Oct 7 2006, 18:00
MedO QUOTE That assumption is a bit of a problem, in my... Oct 7 2006, 18:42
cabbagerat QUOTE (MedO @ Oct 7 2006, 09:42) Of cours... Oct 7 2006, 20:57
ChiGung QUOTE (MedO @ Oct 7 2006, 09:42) Of cours... Oct 7 2006, 23:18
MedO QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 8 2006, 00:18) the p... Oct 8 2006, 00:13
ChiGung QUOTE (MedO @ Oct 8 2006, 00:13) QUOTE (C... Oct 8 2006, 00:28
Canar ChiGung, it is increasingly apparent you are not i... Oct 8 2006, 00:26
Canar I've provided a mathematical example of why yo... Oct 8 2006, 01:05
cabbagerat For your viewing pleasure, here's a quick demo... Oct 8 2006, 08:07
ChiGung QUOTE (cabbagerat @ Oct 8 2006, 08:07) Fo... Oct 8 2006, 15:02
Canar So because sinc() interpolation is weird, PCM fail... Oct 8 2006, 15:28
cabbagerat QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 8 2006, 06:02) This ... Oct 8 2006, 15:51
ChiGung QUOTE (cabbagerat @ Oct 8 2006, 15:51) I ... Oct 8 2006, 16:10
KikeG As others have said, time resolution of PCM is the... Oct 8 2006, 17:59
ChiGung QUOTE (KikeG @ Oct 8 2006, 17:59) As othe... Oct 8 2006, 18:14
KikeG QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 8 2006, 18:14) So yo... Oct 8 2006, 18:24

ChiGung QUOTE (KikeG @ Oct 8 2006, 18:24) Resolut... Oct 8 2006, 18:55
Woodinville QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 8 2006, 10:14) So yo... Oct 8 2006, 19:37
ChiGung QUOTE (Woodinville @ Oct 8 2006, 19:37) Y... Oct 8 2006, 19:57
Woodinville QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 8 2006, 11:57) Yeah ... Oct 9 2006, 18:00
Canar ChiGung, despite your frequent reassertions to the... Oct 8 2006, 20:08
ChiGung QUOTE (Canar @ Oct 8 2006, 20:08) I would... Oct 8 2006, 20:28
ChiGung I think that it is being claimed, almost unanimous... Oct 8 2006, 21:44
legg QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 8 2006, 15:44) I hav... Oct 9 2006, 01:32

ChiGung QUOTE (legg @ Oct 9 2006, 01:32) QUOTE (C... Oct 9 2006, 02:16
2Bdecided QUOTE (ChiGung @ Oct 8 2006, 21:44) The e... Oct 9 2006, 15:08
legg Fine forget about the code and do try to provide m... Oct 9 2006, 03:27
MedO If I understand you right, you are saying that the... Oct 9 2006, 09:35
ChiGung Hello all, I left this discussion in a tizz and ha... Nov 15 2006, 01:16
kwwong QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 14 2006, 19:16) 44kH... Nov 15 2006, 09:50
kwwong QUOTE (kwwong @ Nov 15 2006, 03:50) QUOTE... Nov 16 2006, 10:24
cabbagerat QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 9 2006, 06:08) It... Oct 9 2006, 16:54
Axon So I was mainly pissed off in my earlier post beca... Oct 9 2006, 17:30
Woodinville QUOTE (Axon @ Oct 9 2006, 09:30) The form... Oct 9 2006, 18:41
2Bdecided ChiGung,
Your experiment wouldn't work. By kn... Nov 15 2006, 13:00
ChiGung QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 15 2006, 12:00) ..... Nov 15 2006, 13:45
2Bdecided So, in short, you want to run an experiment to see... Nov 15 2006, 14:29
ChiGung QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 15 2006, 13:29) So... Nov 15 2006, 14:45
Woodinville QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 15 2006, 05:45) QUOT... Nov 15 2006, 19:42
ChiGung QUOTE (Woodinville @ Nov 15 2006, 18:39) ... Nov 15 2006, 19:56

Woodinville QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 15 2006, 10:56) Nice... Nov 15 2006, 20:01

ChiGung QUOTE (Woodinville @ Nov 15 2006, 19:01) ... Nov 15 2006, 20:30

AstralStorm QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 15 2006, 20:30) It i... Nov 15 2006, 22:43

2Bdecided QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 15 2006, 20:30) Im f... Nov 16 2006, 14:22

ChiGung QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 16 2006, 13:22) My... Nov 16 2006, 17:10

SebastianG QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 16 2006, 17:10) The ... Nov 16 2006, 18:22

ChiGung QUOTE (SebastianG @ Nov 16 2006, 17:22) Q... Nov 16 2006, 18:51

Woodinville QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 16 2006, 09:51) I be... Nov 16 2006, 22:48

ChiGung QUOTE (Woodinville @ Nov 16 2006, 21:48) ... Nov 16 2006, 23:32

Woodinville QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 16 2006, 14:32) ... Nov 16 2006, 23:44

ChiGung QUOTE (Woodinville @ Nov 16 2006, 22:44) ... Nov 17 2006, 00:15
ChiGung QUOTE (Woodinville @ Nov 15 2006, 18:42) ... Nov 15 2006, 20:14
Garf QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 15 2006, 20:14) The ... Nov 15 2006, 20:18
Woodinville QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 15 2006, 11:14) Im n... Nov 15 2006, 23:35
ChiGung QUOTE (Woodinville @ Nov 15 2006, 22:35) ... Nov 16 2006, 01:20
cabbagerat QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 15 2006, 05:45) It i... Nov 15 2006, 15:22
ChiGung QUOTE (cabbagerat @ Nov 15 2006, 14:22) T... Nov 15 2006, 15:51
2Bdecided I wish you understood the theory CG, because witho... Nov 15 2006, 16:18
ChiGung QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 15 2006, 15:18) It... Nov 15 2006, 17:01
2Bdecided QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 15 2006, 17:01) QUOT... Nov 15 2006, 18:06
ChiGung QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Nov 15 2006, 17:06) Yo... Nov 15 2006, 18:31
SebastianG I also don't see the point in checking the pos... Nov 15 2006, 16:48
ChiGung QUOTE (SebastianG @ Nov 15 2006, 15:48) I... Nov 15 2006, 17:16
SebastianG I happened to code a subpixel detector for "x... Nov 15 2006, 17:30
ChiGung QUOTE (SebastianG @ Nov 15 2006, 16:30) I... Nov 15 2006, 17:53
SebastianG QUOTE (ChiGung @ Nov 15 2006, 17:53) It w... Nov 15 2006, 17:59
ChiGung QUOTE (SebastianG @ Nov 15 2006, 16:59) Q... Nov 15 2006, 18:21
MoSPDude I've been trying to follow this as well, and e... Nov 17 2006, 00:21
Woodinville QUOTE (MoSPDude @ Nov 16 2006, 15:21) If ... Nov 17 2006, 00:40![]() ![]() |
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