16 bit vs 24 bit, any samples that work? Options

[AndyH-ha]

There are real differences between 16 bit and 24 bit files, just as there are real differences between uncompressed and mp3. As with the differences between wav and mp3, 16 bit vs 24 bit is often difficult to identify by listening.

Test signals are one thing, but has anyone found any 24 bit music recording that can be successfully identified via ABX testing against a properly resample to 16 bit version of same?

[2Bdecided]

Found it...

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gea...ot-audible.html

...interesting thread. Some amazing miscomprehension in there, but still interesting.

I'm not saying you can't hear it. My own algorithm (lossyWAV) says you can. (But I can't!). It's just that 90%+ of people who come to HA claiming to hear a difference between 16-bits and 24-bits, or 44.1kHz and 96kHz, are really hearing problems with their equipment.

Potential equipment "problems" aside, would you be willing to try another ABX or two?

Cheers,
David.

This post has been edited by 2Bdecided: Jan 23 2009, 16:51

[krabapple]

Found it...

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gea...ot-audible.html

...interesting thread. Some amazing miscomprehension in there, but still interesting.

I'm not saying you can't hear it. My own algorithm (lossyWAV) says you can. (But I can't!). It's just that 90%+ of people who come to HA claiming to hear a difference between 16-bits and 24-bits, or 44.1kHz and 96kHz, are really hearing problems with their equipment.

Potential equipment "problems" aside, would you be willing to try another ABX or two?

Cheers,
David.

Let me get this straight... comparisons were 24bit vs dithered-to-16, and another was 24-bit .wav , converted to 16 vs 320 mp3 made directly from the 24 bit .wav ...and at least TWO people in this tiny sample of subjects managed perfect or near-perfect ABX scores on both -- with the mp3 trial reported being HARDER to ABX than the wordlength comparison??? (Except for the THIRD guy who claims he aced the 320 lossy vs lossless ABX, while failing to score significantly on the wordlength ABX). And another guy got 10/10 on just the wordlength ABX?

But Martin K can't successfully ABX two files made using Chris Johnson's superspecial dither?





I'm not implying nefarious intent on Martin K.s part, but to me these data suggest an obvious control: someone here needs to replicate the sample pairs (take the original 24-bit .wav and convert to 16 bit with TPDF dither; take the 24-bit file and convert it to 320 mp3), and see how those guys 'over there' do at ABX'ing them.

This post has been edited by krabapple: Jan 24 2009, 01:41

[Martin Kantola]

But Martin K can't successfully ABX two files made using Chris Johnson's superspecial dither?

My result for the "avd" dither was 8/10, as posted in the thread. And yes, I really want to see more people trying this too! Regardless of outcome. But so far many many posts, but very few ABX results.

You are welcome scrutinize my conversions, I'd be happy to correct any mistakes I might have made, but these are very basic operations on a DAW, honestly think I can handle them.

Martin

[krabapple]

But Martin K can't successfully ABX two files made using Chris Johnson's superspecial dither?

My result for the "avd" dither was 8/10, as posted in the thread. And yes, I really want to see more people trying this too! Regardless of outcome. But so far many many posts, but very few ABX results.

An 8/10 result does not support the hypothesis of 'audible difference' at a p<0.05. You guys should keep the 'bino_dist' chart on this page handy:

http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/winabx/

This post has been edited by krabapple: Jan 25 2009, 00:09