Audibility of Jitter, Proposing a series of tests |
Audibility of Jitter, Proposing a series of tests |
 Dec 27 2006, 14:33
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#1
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 Group: Members Posts: 1018 Joined: 27-September 03 From: Cape Town Member No.: 9042  |
The threshold of audibility of phase noise in ADC and DAC clocks is a fairly contentious issue in the HiFi and audiophile world. Some sources claim that jitter is clearly audible at low levels, and some claim that high levels of jitter are inaudible. The literature describes several tests, many with conflicting results.
One of the chief difficulties in testing the audibility of jitter is that it requires a complex hardware setup, which means that many listeners would be required to be present for an time consuming (and expensive) on site test. Over the last couple of months I have been thinking about organising a distributed listening test to look at the audibility of jitter in audio applications, based on algorithms for simulating the effects of jitter on signals. These algorithms are fairly well described in RF and telecomms engineering literature, and would be interesting for comparison purposes. The kind of thing I have in mind is this: Use samples which are accepted to sound good -> simulate jitter -> perform listening tests -> perform more tests at different levels of jitter depending on results The purpose of this thread is to get ideas of the Hydrogenaudio community about performing these tests. Some of the things I would appreciate input on are:
-------------------- Simulate your radar: http://www.brooker.co.za/fers/
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Oct 14 2012, 13:38
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#2
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Group: Members Posts: 230 Joined: 21-February 05 Member No.: 20022 |
What's your opinion on the difference in audible difference in my last post? What makes the behaviour? Regards.
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Oct 15 2012, 14:48
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#3
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 Group: Members Posts: 3212 Joined: 29-October 08 From: USA, 48236 Member No.: 61311 |
QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Oct 14 2012, 08:38)  What's your opinion on the difference in audible difference in my last post? What makes the behaviour? Regards. Any possible audible differences are effectively masked by a gratuitous warbled tone. |
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Oct 22 2012, 19:49
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#4
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Group: Members Posts: 230 Joined: 21-February 05 Member No.: 20022 |
QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Oct 15 2012, 15:48) QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Oct 14 2012, 08:38) What's your opinion on the difference in audible difference in my last post? What makes the behaviour? Regards. Any possible audible differences are effectively masked by a gratuitous warbled tone. Are you serious? |
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cabbagerat Audibility of Jitter Dec 27 2006, 14:33
Gigapod QUOTE (cabbagerat @ Dec 27 2006, 14:33) T... Dec 27 2006, 16:27 dariju There is a good article about jitter @ Digital Dom... Dec 27 2006, 17:07
Gigapod QUOTE (dariju @ Dec 27 2006, 17:07) There... Dec 27 2006, 17:35 Zster QUOTE (Gigapod @ Dec 27 2006, 18:35) QUOT... Dec 28 2006, 11:31 Gigapod QUOTE (Zster @ Dec 28 2006, 11:31) ...
He... Dec 28 2006, 12:30 cabbagerat QUOTE (Gigapod @ Dec 27 2006, 07:27) I wo... Dec 27 2006, 17:28 Gigapod QUOTE (cabbagerat @ Dec 27 2006, 17:28) .... Dec 27 2006, 18:03 Pio2001 QUOTE (cabbagerat @ Dec 27 2006, 14:33) W... Dec 27 2006, 18:39 Gigapod QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Dec 27 2006, 18:39) ...
... Dec 27 2006, 18:48 cabbagerat QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Dec 27 2006, 09:39) The ... Dec 27 2006, 19:04 Gigapod QUOTE (cabbagerat @ Dec 27 2006, 19:04) .... Dec 27 2006, 19:25 cabbagerat QUOTE (Gigapod @ Dec 28 2006, 03:30) Cabb... Dec 28 2006, 20:56 Gigapod QUOTE (cabbagerat @ Dec 28 2006, 20:56) .... Dec 29 2006, 04:37 wimms Jitter matters only during slope of the signal. In... Dec 29 2006, 16:00 Gigapod QUOTE (wimms @ Dec 29 2006, 16:00) ...
C1... Dec 29 2006, 16:34 cabbagerat The second one of those paper is fascinating. It... Dec 29 2006, 18:25 krabapple QUOTE (cabbagerat @ Dec 29 2006, 12:25) T... Jan 13 2007, 00:11 Gigapod QUOTE (krabapple @ Jan 13 2007, 00:11) ..... Jan 13 2007, 00:30 krabapple well, let me offer this 2005 paper for considerati... Jan 13 2007, 04:32 Woodinville QUOTE (krabapple @ Jan 12 2007, 19:32) we... Jan 13 2007, 08:30 Kees de Visser For the Dutch speaking and jitter interested reade... Jan 13 2007, 18:36 Eric Carroll QUOTE (krabapple @ Jan 12 2007, 22:32) we... Mar 3 2007, 07:07 Kees de Visser A small group of experts on this subject (some fro... Mar 3 2007, 12:34 jlohl QUOTE (Kees de Visser @ Mar 3 2007, 12:34... Mar 4 2007, 10:14 2Bdecided QUOTE (Eric Carroll @ Mar 3 2007, 06:07) ... Mar 21 2007, 12:31 udauda Here's another study on the threshold of jitte... Aug 14 2009, 22:12 udauda http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ast/26/1/50/_p... Aug 14 2009, 22:45 Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (udauda @ Aug 14 2009, 17:12) Here... Aug 16 2009, 11:50 DonnieW QUOTE (krabapple @ Jan 12 2007, 22:32) we... Mar 5 2007, 00:52 Kees de Visser QUOTE (DonnieW @ Mar 5 2007, 00:52) QUOTE... Mar 5 2007, 07:00 DualIP For tests, why not generate a simple program that ... Jan 14 2007, 09:14 knutinh Correlated jitter is probably worse than random ji... Jan 14 2007, 17:59 cabbagerat QUOTE (DualIP @ Jan 14 2007, 00:14) For t... Jan 16 2007, 09:18 sthayashi Is this the wrong place to ask "What IS Jitte... Mar 4 2007, 11:32 mcbear QUOTE (sthayashi @ Mar 4 2007, 11:32) For... Mar 21 2007, 11:05 hlloyge Well, bumping the old thread - has the test been c... Feb 9 2010, 19:21 John_Siau QUOTE (udauda @ Aug 14 2009, 17:45) We ha... May 24 2010, 16:25 pdq John, the post that you quote refers specifically ... May 24 2010, 16:57 John_Siau QUOTE (pdq @ May 24 2010, 11:57) John, th... May 24 2010, 18:15 John_Siau QUOTE (John_Siau @ May 24 2010, 13:15) We... May 24 2010, 20:48 2Bdecided QUOTE (John_Siau @ May 24 2010, 20:48) Hi... May 25 2010, 09:12 Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (2Bdecided @ May 25 2010, 04:12) QU... May 25 2010, 14:04 John_Siau QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ May 25 2010, 09... May 25 2010, 18:09 Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (John_Siau @ May 25 2010, 13:09) Wh... May 26 2010, 16:09 Woodinville QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ May 26 2010, 08... May 26 2010, 18:36 Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Woodinville @ May 26 2010, 13:36) ... May 26 2010, 20:06 punkrockdude I have not read everything but here is a test I di... Oct 11 2012, 21:01 Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Oct 22 2012, 14:49)... Oct 22 2012, 20:34 punkrockdude QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Oct 22 2012, 21... Oct 22 2012, 21:40 2Bdecided QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Oct 14 2012, 13:38)... Oct 23 2012, 11:14 Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 23 2012, 06:14) QU... Oct 23 2012, 13:41 2Bdecided QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Oct 23 2012, 13... Oct 23 2012, 17:22 Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 23 2012, 12:22) QU... Oct 23 2012, 20:12 2Bdecided QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Oct 23 2012, 20... Oct 24 2012, 10:02 punkrockdude 2Bdecided: Interesting about subsamples. So there ... Oct 23 2012, 12:26 Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Oct 23 2012, 07:26)... Oct 23 2012, 13:32 2Bdecided QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Oct 23 2012, 12:26)... Oct 23 2012, 17:21 Kees de Visser To illustrate the importance of sub-sample accurac... Oct 23 2012, 18:21 dhromed File 2 and 3 null out almost perfectly. Amplificat... Oct 23 2012, 13:25 pdq QUOTE (dhromed @ Oct 23 2012, 08:25) 4 an... Oct 23 2012, 16:16 2Bdecided QUOTE (pdq @ Oct 23 2012, 16:16) QUOTE (d... Oct 23 2012, 17:30 pdq QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Oct 23 2012, 12:30) QU... Oct 23 2012, 18:53 |
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