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Topic: News article on the evils of lossy compression (Read 30890 times) previous topic - next topic
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News article on the evils of lossy compression

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...L&type=tech

A few highlights:

"It could be that MP3s actually reach the receptors in our brains in entirely different ways than analog phonograph records. The difference could be as fundamental as which brain hemisphere the music engages."

"Most of today's pop records are already compressed before they leave the studio in the first place..."

"How much the audio quality is affected by the MP3 process depends on the compression strategy, the encoder used, the playback equipment, computer speed and many other steps along the way. Experts agree, however, that the audio quality of most MP3s is somewhere around FM radio. The best digital audio, even with increased sampling rates and higher bit rates, still falls short of the natural quality of now-obsolete analog tape recording."

How do these people get/keep their jobs?
"Not sure what the question is, but the answer is probably no."

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #1 –
Quote
"It's like hearing through a screen door"


This quote (aside from making me laugh at how little sense it makes) instantly reminded me of this Koss KSC75 mod:

[a href="http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf3419ds4.jpg" target="_blank"]
There never need be longing in your eyes

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #2 –
Quote
"Most of today's pop records are already compressed before they leave the studio in the first place..."


Yet another misunderstanding of the difference between compression and encoding.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #3 –
ughh, and we're supposed to be so techy here in Silicon Valley! :|

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #4 –
Joel Selvin may turn out to be an audiophile!

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #5 –
Quote from: mixminus1 on
How do these people get/keep their jobs?

Because their employers haven't a clue either. No different really than big news papers that print fabricated stories. "Feed them b.s., and they'll gladly and unknowingly eat it everyday"

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #6 –
Uggh, I saw this article on slashdot and I couldn't even finish half of it before I closed it in disgust. I bet this "Phil Ramone" couldn't ABX a 128kbps AAC if his life depended on it.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #7 –
Quote from: loophole on
I bet this "Phil Ramone" couldn't ABX a 128kbps AAC if his life depended on it.

Against what?  If it was against the CD, most of the time I (& I suspect many others) wouldn't be able to tell the difference either.  Or did you mean he's never heard of ABXing, let alone done one?
Vorbis -q3 works for me.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #8 –
He cannot be able find the difference between a CD and LameMP3 -cbr 320 -js -q2 !!! If he does, I will pay 1000$ for him :-)))

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #9 –
Quote from: mgabi on
He cannot be able find the difference between a CD and LameMP3 -cbr 320 -js -q2 !!! If he does, I will pay 1000$ for him :-)))


i doubt we'd have to reach -b 320. I'm pretty sure he'll trip somewhere near -V2.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #10 –
I can't believe this trash made the front page of Slashdot. The comments there are quite disgusting, too.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #11 –
Quote from: slks on
I can't believe this trash made the front page of Slashdot.

Uh, /. is trash. Quite enjoyable trash, yes. But still trash. Men read FHM, women read tabloids, nerds read slashdot.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #12 –
I love how analog-worshipers conveniently neglect the noise and distortion fundamental to the analog recording process. They'd have you believe that the signal on an LP record or tape is closer to the "real" sound waves from a performance simply because they're not sampled.

Just one problem with that - vinyl, for example, isn't a perfectly smooth, linear medium  - it's actually rather grainy. Audiophiles make it sound like the grooves on an LP or tape are exact, linear replicas of sound waves. If in reality, the stylus is tracing over thousands of microscopic, randomly-placed grains and pits per cm and not a perfectly smooth, continuous groove (ignoring dust, of course), that seems like a primitive (if unintended) version of sampling to me. So much for a "pure" signal......and that's to say nothing of the other butchering a signal must endure to be stored on an LP or tape.

My brain will stick with digital, thanks.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #13 –
Not only do nerds read Slashdot, they continue to do so a full five years after they claim it sold out and replaced competent editing with monkeys. It's trashed competitors, though; kuro5hin seems completely abandoned. I can't believe the site is still operating with the content on its front page. The only general geek site with potential for competent audio coverage I can think of is Ars Technica, and even that's gone the way of "PC Magazine".

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Cygnus X1 on
I love how analog-worshipers conveniently neglect the noise and distortion fundamental to the analog recording process.

The aspect vinyl lovers gloss over at all costs is the medium's ~60 dB signal-to-noise ratio, while, hypocritically, criticizing compact disc's ~100 dB SNR. It's such a weird argument, especially when even 60 dB is excessive, unless you like bloody ears or live in a sealed chamber.

They also neglect to mention that those wonderful 90 kHz harmonics that make vinyl such a great medium are either obliterated the second the needle first touches the platter or denature into random noise far outside our perception.

The whole concept is weird to me. While I enjoy the charms of old equipment, I'd be out of my mind to suggest a Commodore 64 is even within a light year of a modern PC.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #15 –
Quote
FLAC: This codec, favored by Grateful Dead tape traders, stands for Free Lossless Audio Code. It reduces storage space by 30 to 50 percent, but without compression.

we was young an' full of beans

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #16 –
^ think of what that FLAC could do with compression eh?

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #17 –
Quote
"It forces the brain to work harder to solve it all the time. Any compression system is based on the idea you can throw data away, and that's proved tricky because we don't know how the brain works."


     

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #18 –
See it positive. More and more I come, when it's about audio signaling, lossy compression, mastering etc...  to the conclusion: "I am an expert. I am a super expert. Only a few developers are above me. 0.0000001% of earths population. 99.99999999% is FAR below my knowledge"

@work, IT department, the other day:

me: "I have a notebook set up, which plays files... lossy, aac and mp3.. and wavpack lossless..."
him[1]: "Umm..." (leaves soon)

--
[1] he's supposed to be the depts. audio expert, because he trades with audio gear sometimes...

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Squeller on
@work, IT department, the other day:

me: "I have a notebook set up, which plays files... lossy, aac and mp3.. and wavpack lossless..."
him[1]: "Umm..." (leaves soon)

--
[1] he's supposed to be the depts. audio expert, because he trades with audio gear sometimes...

I've dealt with an IT person at work who had to look up .flac, and didn't want me to install WinAmp, because "it comes with spyware".  Good thing I didn't tell him I was going to install Foobar2000, that would have broken his brain.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #20 –
Quote
Most of today's pop records are already compressed before they leave the studio in the first place

I've seen this misconception in various other articles. Naturally, one would expect a certain degree of confusion between dynamics compression and data compression, but that's something that can be easily resolved with a bit of explanation. Such a flawed statement in a published article seems unacceptable, and this article has many such flawed statements.

I've done more research for forum posts than this guy seems to have done for his e-news article. It's somewhat upsetting, but I don't imagine it really hurts anything. People probably don't pick up the SF Chronicle for the latest bleeding-edge advice on "MP3 music".

And hello, by the way.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #21 –
Quote from: mixminus1 on
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...L&type=tech

A few highlights:

"It could be that MP3s actually reach the receptors in our brains in entirely different ways than analog phonograph records. The difference could be as fundamental as which brain hemisphere the music engages."


That one is screamingly funny, indeed.

Welcome to world of pseudo-science. Make up anything you please and announce that it "could be" so.  Digital encoding meet theosophy; astrology meet the LAME software; physics meet "psychotherapy". All shake hands, please.

Maybe Richard Dawkins could look into this one when he's finished debunking mediums for Britain's Channel 4:

But for heaven's sake don't let anyone undertake a blind ABX test.

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #22 –
Not to start a forum war or anything (that would be terrible), but I always find it interesting when two different groups of people talk about the same thing. Like when you go see a movie with one group of friends and then talk about it with another, sometimes the opinions differ.

It's interesting to see what other audiophiles are saying about this.

I should show this to my non-audiophile friends and see what they think. I want them to evaluate it normally though, I hope they don't get misconceptions...

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #23 –
Quote from: hushypushy on
It's interesting to see what other audiophiles are saying about this.

I'll never cease to be amazed at the blind way people follow an idea without the need for any kind of proof simply because that idea fits there agenda / pre-conceived bias. Such is the way of world I guess.
daefeatures.co.uk

News article on the evils of lossy compression

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Ron Jones on
Quote
Most of today's pop records are already compressed before they leave the studio in the first place

I've seen this misconception in various other articles. Naturally, one would expect a certain degree of confusion between dynamics compression and data compression, but that's something that can be easily resolved with a bit of explanation. Such a flawed statement in a published article seems unacceptable, and this article has many such flawed statements.

I've done more research for forum posts than this guy seems to have done for his e-new article. It's somewhat upsetting, but I don't imagine it really hurts anything. People probably don't pick up the SF Chronicle for the latest bleeding-edge advice on "MP3 music".

And hello, by the way.

I've always considered calling audio formats, such as MP3, "compressors" to be a misuse of the word.  Compression means reduction of volume without loss of mass.  MP3 et al might be more appropriately referred to as "reduced data" formats.

Calling MP3 a "compressor" might well have been a marketing decision...