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96 vs. 48 or 44.1 kHz sampling --> scientific test, perhaps here is the 1. listening test !
user
post Jan 30 2003, 12:42
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http://www.hfm-detmold.de/texts/de/hfm/eti...ten/seite1.html


http://www.hfm-detmold.de/texts/de/hfm/eti...ten/seite9.html

etc.

(seite = site / page)



it is a summary of German diploma work, written 1998, so it should be independent from companies like Zoony etc.

It was quite a good reading, I hope, somebody of the germans could translate important things, sorry, I have no time.

So, the result was:




44.1 kHz, 16 bit:

they used Tascam-DAT-Recorder DA-30 MKII as reference for CD standard, 44.1/16.

They tell, that this was picked out very clearly from the majority.

(btw, they show a graph, that says, that 16 bit has in mid frequency range a noise level, which is higher than our hearing abilities. very interesting !)

so, 44.1/16 is not sufficient.






48 kHz, 24 bit

one DAC was preferred over analogue original, but why could not be figured out. So there was difference but which ?

another DAC was able to reproduce the analogue original as best DAC of all tested, better than all the 96 kHz DACs !!!!!

in blind test it was 50/50 %, so this DAC could not be distinguihsed from original source.



96 kHz:

Dacs had worse performance than the 48 khZ ones.
but some were "beta-versions...".



Look at the graphs, especially site 9.

Sorry for this short post, but I think, it may interest you...

This post has been edited by user: Jan 30 2003, 12:43


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NumLOCK
post Jan 30 2003, 13:55
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Garf, I have not read this article yet but it seems to me, that there might be an explanation for the 24-bit difference that we haven't thought of. A few weeks ago this problem just popped up in my mind.

Here it is: the Nyquist theorem is true if - and only if - each sample is stored with infinite precision.

In other words: if we truncate each sample of the original signal to 16 bits, the added quantization noise will - after the signal passes through the DAC - affect not only the noise floor of the resulting signal, but also various issues such as phase, separation between frequencies, etc.

I've been thinking about verifying that in Matlab, but had no time for that so far. Does it make any sense to you ?

[Edit]
Now about the test: It seems pretty stupid to me. I mean, why not use the SAME 24-bit/96kHz DAC each time, and downsample/requantize the signal for the lower sampling rate tests ? Sounds like the only way to avoid comparing the DAC's rather than the sound quality.
[/Edit]

This post has been edited by NumLOCK: Jan 30 2003, 13:59


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Posts in this topic
- user   96 vs. 48 or 44.1 kHz sampling --> scientific test   Jan 30 2003, 12:42
- - Garf   An dieser Stelle muss aber sicherlich berücksichti...   Jan 30 2003, 12:55
- - budgie   QUOTE so, 44.1/16 is not sufficient. HA... HA.....   Jan 30 2003, 13:23
- - Garf   Well, if I understand the German right, they did i...   Jan 30 2003, 13:30
- - user   just a moment, it doesn't help, if you cite si...   Jan 30 2003, 13:49
- - NumLOCK   Garf, I have not read this article yet but it seem...   Jan 30 2003, 13:55
- - user   QUOTE (Garf @ Jan 30 2003 - 01:30 PM)Well, if...   Jan 30 2003, 13:56
- - NumLOCK   QUOTE They had one very important test-setup for t...   Jan 30 2003, 13:58
- - F1Sushi   I think it's pretty clear from this "stud...   Jan 30 2003, 15:00
- - ChristianHJW   Here is how i would make such a test : 1. Record ...   Jan 30 2003, 16:33
- - budgie   Hey, hey, people... stop, please!!! So...   Jan 30 2003, 16:54
- - F1Sushi   You're certainly entitled to your opinion (so ...   Jan 30 2003, 17:25
- - SK1   This "study" is completely flawed. Until...   Jan 30 2003, 17:40
- - user   Sorry SK1, please tell me, what is flawed in thi...   Jan 30 2003, 20:00
- - F1Sushi   QUOTE (user @ Jan 30 2003 - 03:00 PM)"in...   Jan 30 2003, 21:23
- - NumLOCK   QUOTE (user @ Jan 30 2003 - 08:00 PM)[...] wh...   Jan 30 2003, 21:26
- - user   Numlock, now I am even asking myself, if you have ...   Jan 30 2003, 22:11
- - jesseg   QUOTE (NumLOCK @ Jan 30 2003 - 02:26 PM)...I ...   Jan 30 2003, 22:57
- - ChristianHJW   I took the time and read the complete article. us...   Jan 30 2003, 23:25
- - Doctor   Least Significant Bit in this case.   Jan 30 2003, 23:37
- - jesseg   thanks, ill read up about its important, if someth...   Jan 30 2003, 23:39
- - AgentMil   Slightly OT Sound is so subjective, in that I th...   Jan 31 2003, 07:21
- - NumLOCK   QUOTE (user @ Jan 30 2003 - 10:11 PM)Numlock,...   Jan 31 2003, 09:08
- - budgie   QUOTE ...it tells quite clearly, that 96 kHz is no...   Jan 31 2003, 09:16
- - NumLOCK   QUOTE (budgie @ Jan 31 2003 - 09:16 AM)NumLOC...   Jan 31 2003, 09:23
- - Bedeox   QUOTE (ChristianHJW @ Jan 30 2003 - 07:33 AM)...   Jan 31 2003, 09:33
- - NumLOCK   Bedeox: Why not record the analog to 96kHz, 24 bi...   Jan 31 2003, 10:06
- - Bedeox   Lowpass filtering sound introduces differences... ...   Jan 31 2003, 10:18
- - NumLOCK   QUOTE (Bedeox @ Jan 31 2003 - 10:18 AM)Lowpas...   Jan 31 2003, 10:34
- - Bedeox   Who wants to make such a test and has the equipmen...   Jan 31 2003, 10:40
- - Pio2001   What about the consumer products ? Even if 48 kHz...   Jan 31 2003, 12:44
- - NumLOCK   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jan 31 2003 - 12:44 PM)What ...   Jan 31 2003, 15:19
- - Bedeox   What is a 'typical' linearity? Every type...   Jan 31 2003, 15:30
- - mithrandir   Arguing over the wrong things... I would be perfe...   Jan 31 2003, 16:40
- - F1Sushi   QUOTE (mithrandir @ Jan 31 2003 - 11:40 AM)Ar...   Jan 31 2003, 17:17
- - Bedeox   You're so much right, mithrandir... a lot of m...   Jan 31 2003, 17:20
- - F1Sushi   Does anyone remember this article on compression a...   Jan 31 2003, 17:26
- - budgie   Uh?   Jan 31 2003, 20:24
- - F1Sushi   QUOTE (budgie @ Jan 31 2003 - 03:24 PM)QUOTE ...   Jan 31 2003, 20:38
- - Bedeox   Oh yeah... THE OTHER SIDE you say? From INSIDE of ...   Jan 31 2003, 20:43


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