Vinyl vs Digital and 24 bit vs 16 bit from vinyl. |
Vinyl vs Digital and 24 bit vs 16 bit from vinyl. |
Mar 5 2008, 10:20
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#1
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Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 28-August 07 Member No.: 46568 |
24-bit precision gives you about 16.77 million values. Assuming a total groove width of 50 x 10^-6m, the maximum movement of the cutter is physically bounded at about half that. Much more and the cutter will be in the space for an adjacent groove. Thus, 50 microns width divided by 16.77 million gives us about 3 x 10^-12m, i.e. ~0.03 angstroms.
The diameter of a hydrogen atom is 1.0 angstroms (1 x 10^-10m). That would make the resolution of a 24-bit digital signal equivalent to an analog cutter whose resolution is just about 1/30 the width of a hydrogen atom. Sadly, this seems to be physically impossible, as none of the particles smaller than atoms are stable enough to be used in records. Of course, records aren't made of hydrogen, they're made of the polymer pvc. One molecule of pvc is about 100,000 angstroms. This means that, if the cutters were actually removing single pvc molecules the vinyl records would have about 11 bits of resolution. Sadly, they don't get even that precise, though I'm not sure the actual precision. To get down to a record made of hydrogen atoms (possible under very low temp/very high pressure I suppose) one would need 19 bits. Anything beyond that is useless as long as the laws of physics hold. Therefore, all other things being equal, digital is superior to vinyl. That said, mastering on CDs is often terrible while the mastering on records is often made somewhat better. This varies from CD to CD and record to record, and CDs are technologically far superior to records. |
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Jun 3 2008, 08:34
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#2
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 1983 Joined: 4-January 04 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 10933 |
I would argue that a closer analogy than a wood door vs. a steel door would be going vegetarian because you're afraid of food poisoning. Just because you feel safer about it doesn't mean you really are safer, or that the risk was all that important in the first place.
You should read up more on sampling theory. There is no "space" between samples. DVDs are usually lossily encoded on their audio tracks, but their DACs are generally of the same garden variety that are used in computers. There's no difference in how they decode audio - merely in the choice of lossy encoder used. That said, I still rip vinyl to 24/96, but I make no justification for it nowadays, and I'm running low enough on disk space that I am considering switching to 16/44 for good. |
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SoAnIs Vinyl vs Digital and 24 bit vs 16 bit from vinyl. Mar 5 2008, 10:20
digital Dig that crazy math man! Speaking as a huge v... Mar 5 2008, 12:33
pdq Not to be too nit-picky, but vinyl records aren... Mar 5 2008, 13:11
Nick.C QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 5 2008, 12:11) Not to be... Mar 5 2008, 13:22
pdq QUOTE (Nick.C @ Mar 5 2008, 08:22) QUOTE ... Mar 5 2008, 18:19
JensRex Best first post in years. Mar 5 2008, 13:29
Axon But the contact area of the stylus covers many tho... Mar 5 2008, 18:39
pdq QUOTE (Axon @ Mar 5 2008, 13:39) But the ... Mar 5 2008, 19:27
Woodinville QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 5 2008, 10:27) QUOTE (Ax... Mar 5 2008, 20:03
SoAnIs True, I simplified a lot. But, as I also showed, e... Mar 6 2008, 03:13
Vitecs QUOTE (SoAnIs @ Mar 5 2008, 20:13) The re... Mar 6 2008, 08:46
tgoose QUOTE (Vitecs @ Mar 6 2008, 07:46) QUOTE ... Mar 6 2008, 11:12
SebastianG Hello, SoAnIs!
There's one point I'm ... Mar 6 2008, 15:31
A Dawg QUOTE (SoAnIs @ Mar 5 2008, 03:20) 24-bit... Jun 3 2008, 04:58
Mike Giacomelli QUOTE (A Dawg @ Jun 2 2008, 23:58) As far... Jun 3 2008, 06:10
A Dawg I personally feel that 16 to 24 bit is a small, bu... Jun 3 2008, 06:41
2Bdecided QUOTE (A Dawg @ Jun 3 2008, 06:41) I pers... Jun 3 2008, 10:16
tot QUOTE (Axon @ Jun 3 2008, 09:34) That sai... Jun 3 2008, 12:15
Juha QUOTE (tot @ Jun 3 2008, 14:15) QUOTE (Ax... Jun 3 2008, 19:05
Roseval Some calculations for you and a proof that the LP ... Jun 3 2008, 12:20
Slipstreem From the article...
QUOTE The effect is to divide ... Jun 3 2008, 12:57
2tec QUOTE (SoAnIs @ Mar 5 2008, 03:20) Theref... Jun 3 2008, 16:10
2Bdecided But a digital recording can sound like anything yo... Jun 3 2008, 18:04
2tec QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jun 3 2008, 11:04) The... Jun 7 2008, 22:31

2Bdecided QUOTE (2tec @ Jun 7 2008, 22:31) QUOTE (2... Jun 9 2008, 12:03

2tec QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jun 9 2008, 05:03) QUO... Jun 11 2008, 00:12
sld QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jun 4 2008, 01:04) ...... Jul 28 2008, 08:20
botface QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jun 3 2008, 18:04) A v... Jul 28 2008, 14:51
Slipstreem QUOTE (botface @ Jul 28 2008, 14:51) Sorr... Jul 28 2008, 15:41

botface QUOTE (Slipstreem @ Jul 28 2008, 15:41) Q... Jul 28 2008, 17:03

2Bdecided QUOTE (botface @ Jul 28 2008, 17:03) I... Jul 29 2008, 10:13

botface Fair comment. It seems we don't disagree after... Jul 29 2008, 10:53

2tec QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 29 2008, 03:13) I ... Oct 17 2008, 19:44

2Bdecided QUOTE (2tec @ Oct 17 2008, 19:44) Indeed,... Oct 20 2008, 14:45
Woodinville QUOTE (botface @ Jul 28 2008, 06:51) Sorr... Jul 28 2008, 18:00
Axon Oh, nice! Another flat transfer partisan. Welc... Jun 3 2008, 20:20
Woodinville QUOTE (Axon @ Jun 3 2008, 12:20) Oh, nice... Jun 3 2008, 20:26
Juha QUOTE (Woodinville @ Jun 3 2008, 22:26) Q... Jun 3 2008, 21:07
Axon The gain structure and DR are completely f*cked up... Jun 3 2008, 20:40
Juha QUOTE (Axon @ Jun 3 2008, 22:40) The gain... Jun 3 2008, 21:17
Woodinville QUOTE (Axon @ Jun 3 2008, 12:40) The gain... Jun 3 2008, 21:43
AndyH-ha The Emu specs say the preamp noise is approaching ... Jun 3 2008, 21:11
Axon QUOTE (Juha @ Jun 3 2008, 15:35) QUOTE (A... Jun 3 2008, 22:35
Juha QUOTE (Axon @ Jun 4 2008, 00:35) BTW Juha... Jun 4 2008, 05:10
Axon QUOTE (Juha @ Jun 3 2008, 23:10) QUOTE (A... Jun 9 2008, 16:55
AndyH-ha Are you using a moving coil cartridge? Normal gain... Jun 3 2008, 21:18
Juha QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 3 2008, 23:18)... Jun 3 2008, 21:35
AndyH-ha No, Axon is the one turning the gain to maximum. Jun 3 2008, 21:37
Axon It's entirely a matter of the gain used. I can... Jun 3 2008, 22:20
SHADES QUOTE (SoAnIs @ Mar 5 2008, 09:20) 24-bit... Jul 28 2008, 06:30
Axon QUOTE (SHADES @ Jul 28 2008, 00:30) Reall... Jul 28 2008, 08:03
richms My brief venture into vinyl was short lived becaus... Jul 28 2008, 16:37
pdq QUOTE (richms @ Jul 28 2008, 11:37) My br... Jul 28 2008, 17:16
pdq What about the experiments in which an analog audi... Oct 17 2008, 19:56
2tec QUOTE (pdq @ Oct 17 2008, 12:56) What abo... Oct 18 2008, 02:20
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (pdq @ Oct 17 2008, 14:56) What abo... Oct 30 2008, 20:57
Axon QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Oct 30 2008, 14... Oct 30 2008, 22:40
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Axon @ Oct 30 2008, 17:40) Right n... Oct 31 2008, 13:53
Slipstreem QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Oct 31 2008, 13... Oct 31 2008, 15:37

Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Slipstreem @ Oct 31 2008, 10:37) Q... Nov 2 2008, 12:27

Slipstreem QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 2 2008, 11... Nov 2 2008, 17:43
Axon QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Oct 31 2008, 07... Oct 31 2008, 17:38
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Axon @ Oct 31 2008, 12:38) QUOTE (... Nov 2 2008, 12:38
Axon QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 2 2008, 06... Nov 2 2008, 18:56
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Axon @ Nov 2 2008, 13:56) Also, if... Nov 2 2008, 23:09
Axon QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 2 2008, 17... Nov 2 2008, 23:50
Slipstreem I do see your point, but I've stopped using my... Oct 18 2008, 03:18
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Slipstreem @ Oct 17 2008, 21:18) A... Oct 29 2008, 22:11
[JAZ] QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Oct 29 2008, 23... Oct 29 2008, 22:37
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE ' date='Oct 29 2008, 17:37' post... Oct 30 2008, 20:41
Slipstreem QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Oct 30 2008, 20... Oct 30 2008, 21:07
Axon ARNY SPEAKS!
Took ya long enough to get here Oct 29 2008, 22:20
Slipstreem I never said that the cassette format was sonicall... Oct 29 2008, 23:37
Slipstreem @Axon: I hope you're providing the recommended... Oct 31 2008, 01:00
Axon QUOTE (Slipstreem @ Oct 30 2008, 19:00) @... Oct 31 2008, 01:11
Slipstreem Ah. Fair enough.
Cheers, Slipstreem. Oct 31 2008, 01:24
Axon ... That said, I do intend on scoring a 78 cart so... Oct 31 2008, 01:52
botface QUOTE (Axon @ Oct 31 2008, 01:52) ... Tha... Nov 1 2008, 10:40
Slipstreem Would it not work better with the capacitors solde... Oct 31 2008, 02:14
Axon Soldering the leads on a cart is an easy way to fr... Oct 31 2008, 02:26
Slipstreem Best of luck with it when it happens. I'm hopi... Oct 31 2008, 02:32
Axon Sure, thanks - although I'll warn you, this is... Nov 1 2008, 19:49
krabapple Goodness, Axon on RAHE, Arny on HA, a mixed-race D... Nov 7 2008, 18:41
Woodinville QUOTE (krabapple @ Nov 7 2008, 09:41) Goo... Nov 11 2008, 19:49
krabapple QUOTE (Woodinville @ Nov 11 2008, 14:49) ... Nov 11 2008, 21:32
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (krabapple @ Nov 11 2008, 15:32) To... Nov 13 2008, 14:05
ff123 I feel old. Good to see you Arny. Nov 8 2008, 03:54
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (ff123 @ Nov 7 2008, 21:54) I feel ... Nov 10 2008, 03:06
Axon Wow, talk about bum luck on RAHE. Or just bums.
I... Nov 11 2008, 19:58
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Axon @ Nov 11 2008, 13:58) I tend ... Nov 13 2008, 14:17
Axon QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 13 2008, 07... Nov 13 2008, 20:42
krabapple QUOTE (Axon @ Nov 13 2008, 14:42) QUOTE (... Nov 14 2008, 04:06
Arnold B. Krueger [quote name='krabapple' date='Nov 13 2... Nov 15 2008, 22:54
Woodinville QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 15 2008, 13... Nov 16 2008, 06:10
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Woodinville @ Nov 16 2008, 00:10) ... Nov 17 2008, 15:24
Woodinville QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 17 2008, 06... Nov 18 2008, 06:24
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Woodinville @ Nov 18 2008, 00:24) ... Nov 18 2008, 22:30
Woodinville QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 18 2008, 13... Nov 19 2008, 00:00
Woodinville QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Nov 13 2008, 05... Nov 15 2008, 02:03![]() ![]() |
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