PC > Amp > Speaker setup for my needs, LF accurate music in bedroom, eventually 4.1 5.1 for movies Options

[napalmdeth]

Please help me in my quest to buy some personal audio equipment.
My circumstances are:

* My PC will be the sound source. My music is in .flac's. Onboard Realtek ALC 850, has 4 channel analog output + center/subwoofer output, and SPDIF passthru. I am happy with it with my Sennheiser PC151 headphones, no interference noise, and will upgrade to a sound card only if truly necessary.
* I want to spend about $500-600
* I would like accurate, quality sound in music at medium volumes, don't need to blow away the neighbors. I don't have a love for extreme bass etc.
* Although I will probably start out with 2 speakers, I would like to move on to a 4.0 or 5.1 system eventually for moveis. That means I am looking for an amp (or is it called a receiver?) which can take in analog multichannel and output front-rear and mid.

Now I have read through this forum and I am currently leaning towards the Behringer B2030P or B2031P studio monitors because of all the praise by WmAx. Although I do have questions regarding these:

1) The 2031P can go a little lower than the 2030P (55hz vs. 75hz.) and I noticed on Behringer's site that it says the 2030P is "for integration in multi-channel monitoring systems that include a dedicated subwoofer", there is no such wording for the 2031P. Does the improved bass range of the 2031P eliminate the need for a subwoofer? If I will want a subwoofer regardless, the 2030P is cheaper so it is more suitable, correct? Which is a better choice?
I can get a pair of 2030P for $300 or a pair of 2031P for $365

2) WmAx has recommended the Onkyo SR505 receiver (same thing as amp, right?) but it is very difficult for me to locate it where I live (Turkey). I have found the SR605 but it sells for about $800 (yes, electronics prices suck here) What are similar alternatives to the SR505 from other brands?

3) I have some old POS Sony speakers from a compact midi set (it says 8ohm impedence on it that's all) from when I was a teenager. I thought I could stick them in as rear speakers for movies only until I can buy another set of good speakers. Is this viable temporarily or a terrible idea?

4) If later I can buy another pair of good speakers for surround sound such as from Behringer, should I buy the same ones or will smaller ones be enough for rear and center? I am asking because in 5.1 sets I usually see the rear-center speakers are weaker than the front speakers, is there a downside to this?

thanks in advance.

[WmAx]

1) The 2031P can go a little lower than the 2030P (55hz vs. 75hz.) and I noticed on Behringer's site that it says the 2030P is "for integration in multi-channel monitoring systems that include a dedicated subwoofer", there is no such wording for the 2031P. Does the improved bass range of the 2031P eliminate the need for a subwoofer? If I will want a subwoofer regardless, the 2030P is cheaper so it is more suitable, correct? Which is a better choice?
I can get a pair of 2030P for $300 or a pair of 2031P for $365

Yes, the lower response means that you could get away without a sub for music use, though still not ideal. But not for HT, where very low frequency LF content is common.

Also, I have not measured/analyzed the larger version. It may or may not be of the same quality/standard as the smaller unit. Also, please remember that I always recommend some minor mods/fixes be performed on the B2030P, such as gluing a certain part inside to keep it from rattling and to use some sealer material to take care of an air breach. Better quality internal acoustic stuffing is also a desirable thing to add.

2) WmAx has recommended the Onkyo SR505 receiver (same thing as amp, right?) but it is very difficult for me to locate it where I live (Turkey). I have found the SR605 but it sells for about $800 (yes, electronics prices suck here) What are similar alternatives to the SR505 from other brands?

Unfortunately, I don't know what to recommend for your country. Also, my recommendation of the SR505 in the USA is partially due to the recent super low cost direct from the manufacturer, as well as Onkyo's solid track record in measurable performance.

3) I have some old POS Sony speakers from a compact midi set (it says 8ohm impedence on it that's all) from when I was a teenager. I thought I could stick them in as rear speakers for movies only until I can buy another set of good speakers. Is this viable temporarily or a terrible idea?

This depends entirely upon what your ears can take in regards to bad sound quality.

4) If later I can buy another pair of good speakers for surround sound such as from Behringer, should I buy the same ones or will smaller ones be enough for rear and center? I am asking because in 5.1 sets I usually see the rear-center speakers are weaker than the front speakers, is there a downside to this?

I simply recommend using the B2030P all the way around(L, R, C, RR, RL). It will make for a superb HT speaker system, ironically better than most so-called hi-fi speakers that cost 5-10x more, in so far as the critical measured performance as it relates to auditory perception and assuming you do the basic fixes/mods I always recommend for this speaker.

BTW, would you be willing to have some subwoofers or other things shipped to you from abroad? If so, I can check the price to ship Dayton 10" powered subs to you from the US via USPS. I have shipped many things to people over seas to help them out this way. Considering the rip off prices in your country on electronics, it might be worth the shipping price. The Dayton 10" and 12" powered subs are the absolute best value I know of, for very low priced units available. Two should be used to ideally integrate with the Behringer B2030P for mid-field or far-field use. The 10" is about 130 USD and the 12" is about 155 USD(please see www.partsexpress.com for exact pricing). Shipping for 40lbs package of the dimensions of a sub, would be in the range of 140-160USD. A receiver can be sent for even less, due to lower weight.

-Chris

This post has been edited by WmAx: Jun 29 2008, 09:24

[napalmdeth]

Wow, that is more than I can ask. I'm done looking at the e-tailers. Tomorrow I will scour the retail shops and see what I can find there. I'll look for an Onkyo and those Dayton's as well as prices on the Behringers. I will let you know how it goes.

[napalmdeth]

Here's what I found so far in terms of affordable amps, which is quite disappointing. And these are second hand! Can you comment on them? Would they drive the Behringers properly?

Onkyo TX-DS575 5.1 For $460
Onkyo TX-SR303E 5.1 For $360
Sony STR-DE698 7.1 For $400

I've still got a few places to look at and will update later..

This post has been edited by napalmdeth: Jul 2 2008, 10:54

[WmAx]

Here's what I found so far in terms of affordable amps, which is quite disappointing. And these are second hand! Can you comment on them? Would they drive the Behringers properly?

Onkyo TX-DS575 5.1 For $460
Onkyo TX-SR303E 5.1 For $360
Sony STR-DE698 7.1 For $400

I've still got a few places to look at and will update later..

Well, you should look up on Google, any specific amp you are leaning towards, to see if a high number of displeasing comments show up, that could indicate a technical problem/flaw with the product. That is what I always do before making a purchase. But I would lean towards Onkyo or Yamaha. Sony's regular lines(non ES) seem to have consistently much lower power output than they claim in specifications when tested by 3rd parties. Onkyo and Yamaha seem to be the best in this regard. Harman Kardon has had a lot of past technical problems/reliability issues with their receivers based on a huge number of online complaints; I don't know if they fixed these problems yet. Pioneer is a solid/reliable product, usually, with few complaints made from what I can tell.

-Chris

[WonderSlug]

Here's what I found so far in terms of affordable amps, which is quite disappointing. And these are second hand! Can you comment on them? Would they drive the Behringers properly?

Onkyo TX-DS575 5.1 For $460
Onkyo TX-SR303E 5.1 For $360
Sony STR-DE698 7.1 For $400

I've still got a few places to look at and will update later..

The TX-DS575 is a 7.1 receiver and it lists for $399 USD MSRP.

I can see though, being in Turkey, where prices might be higher due to lack of general availability.

First, do you really plan on going all the way to 7.1? If so, then go ahead and buy it on Amazon or elsewhere for about $220 USD to $280 USD.

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR575-Chann...r/dp/B000OBOGEQ

EDIT: I'm sorry, I quoted the wrong model. TX-SR575 instead of TX-DS575. Ignore the above if you want.



Now, since this is for your PC, a budget HTiB might be more your style.

The Onkyo HT-SR700 is a 5.1 setup that includes speakers, subwoofer, and an integrated receiver. It can be bought for $359 online (as of this writing) from an Amazon associate reseller that will ship internationally. It was as low as $289 direct from Amazon before July 1.


(main Amazon link)

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-HT-SR700-Theat...m/dp/B000O8E8YM



(PlasmaBuddy Amazon reseller link)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00...YM/ref=dp_olp_2

This post has been edited by WonderSlug: Jul 2 2008, 17:33

[napalmdeth]

Wonderslug, the amazon prices are great, but unless I'm missing something, none of them will ship electronics to Turkey.
I checked Plasmabuddy and Electronicexpress which said "international shipping available", tried to checkout a receiver and found "this item currently only ships to US".

[WmAx]

Wonderslug, the amazon prices are great, but unless I'm missing something, none of them will ship electronics to Turkey.
I checked Plasmabuddy and Electronicexpress which said "international shipping available", tried to checkout a receiver and found "this item currently only ships to US".

I have a perfect feedback on eBay, and you can check it out if you want - I'm just saying - because I will ship a couple of things from the US to you in Turkey for no added profit to help you out in getting some gear for sane prices. Even with the shipping, the prices will be far far lower than you buying stuff in Turkey. But I understand if you can not trust some seemingly random person on the internet. And I don't know how to even get a reliable payment from Turkey - but it's up to you if you want to pay those crazy Turkey prices.

-Chris

This post has been edited by WmAx: Jul 3 2008, 18:55

[napalmdeth]

WmAx, I really appreciate that you would go to the trouble. Unfortunately that is not sure to work. Large things tend to get stuck in Customs at the airport. Then they pile enormous taxes and surcharges on you when you try to claim the item, it ends up costing you the same money as you would buy local. Money + hassle. Some even abandon their stuff when this happens.

I have friends in the US who could do what you are offering for me, which I truly appreciate, if only that would be a sure way!
Inconspicous wrapping will reduce the chances of trouble but still it's a gamble. I might try that as a last resort yet but I'm gonna check out this 2nd hand shop tomorrow first.

btw. payments from Turkey is the same as everywhere else.. PayPal, wire transfer, whatever..

This post has been edited by napalmdeth: Jul 3 2008, 20:32

[napalmdeth]

I'm back from the shop guys, and confused. First of all the dude at the shop claimed that the Behringers are awful because they are studio equipment and not for apartments. Any way here's what I was able to find in the shop, and I would like you to comment: what would you pick? The prices may seem high to you, but they were the best I could find in this country.

Amps:

Onkyo TX-DS575 (2nd hand) - $400
Onkyo TX-DS484 (2nd hand) - $360
Pioneer VSX-D711 (2nd hand) - $320
Pioneer VSX-D514 (new) - $320


Speakers (2x, new):

Definitive Technology Studio Monitors 450 - $480
Behringer 2030P - $240 (lower price than I found before)
Dali AXS 5000 - $400
Dali AXS 3000 - $320
Jamo E650 - $360
Yamaha NS420 - $320
Eltax Omega (forgot model number) - $240

Waiting for opinions!

This post has been edited by napalmdeth: Jul 8 2008, 20:01

[napalmdeth]

WmAx, would you still go with the Behringer's at this price and compared to the other stuff? I know you recommend the 2030P's but maybe that recommendation is based on $130 price point.. 90% chance I'm gonna buy the 2030P's based on your recommendation, just want to make sure.

[WmAx]

WmAx, would you still go with the Behringer's at this price and compared to the other stuff? I know you recommend the 2030P's but maybe that recommendation is based on $130 price point.. 90% chance I'm gonna buy the 2030P's based on your recommendation, just want to make sure.

Even at the $400/pair point for passive bookshelf speakers, I will still recommend the Behringer. You will have to go a bit higher, and then I can start recommending other products that have comparable and superior measured behavior(s) of audible relevance in the bookshelf category.

-Chris

[napalmdeth]

That's it then, I'm getting the 2030P's, and another pair if I'm satisfied with them. And I will mod them according to your advice when the guarantee expires or sooner if I feel like experimenting!

One last favor, I've narrowed down my amp choices to 4 options, if you can point me towards one it will be gold. Thanks WmAx.

(copy-pasting from my audioholics forum post)

"My quest for a cheap 5.1 receiver to power 4x Behringer 2030P's and a future center/sub has led me to these final options. Which should I pick?

Note: These picks are based on prices and availability in Turkey, please do not suggest other items as the prices will be way off or the item not available.

PIONEER VSX-D514 ~400YTL, $330
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products...4-S/print.html
*This one looks nice to me but it is an old one from the 2004 series.

JVC RX-5062RSL ~330YTL, $270
http://av.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelI...athId=5&page=1
*I really like the price on this one although it says 10% THD which scares me because all the others have 1% or less, what would that mean in terms of sound quality? I have also read somewhere that this is an "internally analog" amp. Is that bad? Would you pick this one over the Pioneer?

JVC RX-D201 ~460YTL, $380
http://www.jvc-australia.com/JVC/cli...ID=7&prodID=84
*I could move up to the next JVC but the price comes really close to the next option. This one has 7 channels and many features, although I am mostly interested in sound quality and 5.1 playback.

Yamaha RX-V361 ~500YTL, $410
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...l?CNTID=552118
*This looks nice as well, although it is a 2007 series model, the 363 has not arrived here yet. It is also the most expensive.

Any comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated! I am both budget minded and this country is difficult to shop! thanks!"

[WmAx]

That's it then, I'm getting the 2030P's, and another pair if I'm satisfied with them. And I will mod them according to your advice when the guarantee expires or sooner if I feel like experimenting!

Well, the basic mods I recommend are required for any use, in my opinion. If you get a rattle/distortion like sound even, or air rushing noise at moderate volumes, you can blame it on failure to do these mods that were alerted to you in advance. Due to the low price of the 2030P, I can not see a reason to not do he mods, at least after you verify they work right to begin with immediately after acquisition.

One last favor, I've narrowed down my amp choices to 4 options, if you can point me towards one it will be gold. Thanks WmAx.

Historically, among the brands you listed, Yamaha has had the most consistent/best measurements/performance of which I can remember, though I have not seen measurements for the specific model in question.

-Chris

[napalmdeth]

The reason I hesitate to modding it right away is because I will be paying not the $130 US price but about $280 TR price for them. Do you mean to say that the speakers are not a good buy in their default state? How much difference would you say the mods make? 20%, 50% ?

[WmAx]

The reason I hesitate to modding it right away is because I will be paying not the $130 US price but about $280 TR price for them. Do you mean to say that the speakers are not a good buy in their default state? How much difference would you say the mods make? 20%, 50% ?

I can't put a percentage to the modifications. All I can say is that you may end up with an audible rattle/vibration or an audible air rush sound with high amplitude bass. Or you may not. It is variable; it depends on the music you play and how loud you play it, that determines if it excites these problems to an audible point. These issues are corrected with the very simple modifications. By simple, I mean 10-15 minutes and using some common material like rope caulk and super glue. No special skill needed what so ever. Also, you can add some better internal acoustical dampening material and improve clarity a bit, also. Like most speakers, the B2030P uses insufficient internal dampening. I never quite figured out why this is a common issue on most speakers, as I would think acoustic dampening would be one of the lowest price things they could do to improve the units.

-Chris

[napalmdeth]

That sounds alright. Thanks for the tutoring, appreciated.