Bought Sennheiser PXC250s, Not sure if I like them - Alternatives? Options

[MedO]

I've used the Sennheiser PX100s for a while now and have been quite happy with them. However, since I often listen to music in environments with much distracting sound (bus/train, office, or when lawnmowing) I thoght I'd buy a pair of closed headphones for these purposes. Looking around a bit, I found the PXC 250's and found many posts of people who like them. They are small, closed and actively noise-cancelling and appeared to have a good frequency response from the graphs at headphone.com. The first doubts appeared when I had already sent the order and noticed that these 'phones cost around twice as much here (Germany) than they cost in the USA - I paid 120€ for them, lowest prices you can get from european shops seem to be around 100€, while they can be had for $85 (~55€) from newegg.

Well, I thought I'd listen to them first and decide then. Now that they have arrived, I'm a bit disappointed - it's OK in my opinion that the noice-cancelling/pre-amp needs to be running to get proper sound, but even then the bass was substantially weaker than with the PX100s, and the highs seemed to be exaggerated. The noise cancelling didn't work as well as I had thought, too. Then again, when I listened to them for a bit my ears seemed to adapt, and switching back to the PX100s the bass appeared to be exaggerated and the highs too silent. However, even after some listening the PXC250s still sounded a bit too bright.

Since I can still send them back, I want to ask a few questions to decide what to do.

- Will their sound change a lot when they have been used for a bit? Specifically, will the bass response improve?
- Since the price is quite high, are there phones from other manufacturers (who might sell cheaper here) in that range that might give me better sound / comfortability? They should have good isolation, larger circumaural phones would be OK too.
- Does the noise isolation improve with some use? After all, the pads might get a bit softer, better sealing the sound, and if the sound of the speakers changes after some break-in, it might better match the outside noise it's cancelling.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Edit: all statements about the sound are my subjective opinion only and have not been ABXed

This post has been edited by MedO: Jul 10 2008, 16:38

[muaddib]

Noise isolation will not improve after long use, believe me I am using them constantly.

[vonbach]

For home use, I suggest the Sennheiser HD-555. It's relatively inexpensive compared to high-end models from the same company. There are a few user reviews here:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductRevie...N82E16826106392

If your budget allows, consider Grado, AKG K-601, or Beyerdynamic headphones.

[Martel]

Then again, when I listened to them for a bit my ears seemed to adapt, and switching back to the PX100s the bass appeared to be exaggerated and the highs too silent. However, even after some listening the PXC250s still sounded a bit too bright.

I have switched from HD 490 (cheap, open) to HD 215 (more expensive, closed) and the story is very similar. But I can honestly say that HD 490 are just overbassed and with poor treble, not the other way around (HD 215 poor on bass and exaggerated treble).
Perhaps the satisfaction is also connected to one's taste and favourite genre. I found the closed ones better (more natural) for acoustic music (blues etc.) while I miss a bit of bass and highs are a bit too aggressive for metal music (for which I blame the mastering, not the headphones).

[MedO]

Then again, when I listened to them for a bit my ears seemed to adapt, and switching back to the PX100s the bass appeared to be exaggerated and the highs too silent. However, even after some listening the PXC250s still sounded a bit too bright.

I have switched from HD 490 (cheap, open) to HD 215 (more expensive, closed) and the story is very similar. But I can honestly say that HD 490 are just overbassed and with poor treble, not the other way around (HD 215 poor on bass and exaggerated treble).
Perhaps the satisfaction is also connected to one's taste and favourite genre. I found the closed ones better (more natural) for acoustic music (blues etc.) while I miss a bit of bass and highs are a bit too aggressive for metal music (for which I blame the mastering, not the headphones).

Well, I also like to keep the loudness switch in my amplifier turned on, so I probably just like it bassy (in fact, I partially did this because the speakers sounded too weak in the low frequencies compared to the PX100s otherwise. Also, I like to feel the explosions in games.)

The HD-215s can be had for 50€ ($80) at amazon.de, so they look like a good choice, however the akg k-601s are somewhat outside my preferred price range and are open, as are the Sennheiser HD-555s - I am looking for cans with good isolation of outside noise.

Thanks for the answers so far!

[MedO]

I've been looking around for a bit more, and found the Beyerdynamic DJX-1 on amazon.de for 110€ ($172). They are a good deal larger than the PXC-250s but can be folded and come with a case as well, plus they might be more comfortable. Does anyone here have experience with these or know how they compare to the Sennheiser HD-215s?

[jido]

Beyerdynamic should be good, but what is a 'DJ' headphone?
Well at least the flyer says "powerfull bass response" so it may be to your taste

[Marky Mark]

MedO,

I have been using the PXC250's for a couple years, albeit not everyday by anymeans - mostly for flying, so on airplanes the reduction in sound quality due to the noise cancelling circuitry doesn't bother me. I can confirm after about 2 years of personal use that the sound does not really change (at least to me...no ABX to prove it or anything), nor does the noise cancelling capabilities improve or reduce that I've been able to notice.

So, the bottom line on the PXC250's from my own experience is that they will continue to behave very similar to how they are behaving for you now - no great changes should be expected.

That being said, when I did comparison shopping there weren't a whole lot of other options - definitely didn't want to pay 3-4 times as much for the Bose equivalents. The reviews I read on some of the other brands (Sony, Koss, etc.) that had more budget-level headphones made it sound as if the noise cancelling circuitry was pretty useless. There might be more models available now, I haven't checked around in a while. Seems like others have given you some good options to look into.

-Mark

[Eldo]

You might also consider the Ultrasone HFI-780s, although I'm not sure on pricing and availability in Europe, if its not too high then it could be a nice option. They have excellent bass, and very good isolation. Although I'm not sure I'd wear them while moving a lawn, the pleather padding would probably get rather sweaty Pricing would probably be your biggest obstacle, they are like $165-180 at various places in the U.S. Also, they might be a little bigger than what you're looking for, you can google some images, but thought I'd throw out a recommendation for them. I have them and I am enjoying

[Martel]

Although I'm not sure I'd wear them while moving a lawn, the pleather padding would probably get rather sweaty

Yeah, the same story with HD 215. As soon as the temperature goes over 25 degrees Celsius, I have to regularly take them off and ventilate my ears. When it's hot or when I just watch TV, I simply switch to HD 490 (which are supraaural and sweat much less).

[muaddib]

One might also consider in-ear phones. They work like charm for me.

[/mnt]

Then again, when I listened to them for a bit my ears seemed to adapt, and switching back to the PX100s the bass appeared to be exaggerated and the highs too silent. However, even after some listening the PXC250s still sounded a bit too bright.

I have switched from HD 490 (cheap, open) to HD 215 (more expensive, closed) and the story is very similar. But I can honestly say that HD 490 are just overbassed and with poor treble, not the other way around (HD 215 poor on bass and exaggerated treble).
Perhaps the satisfaction is also connected to one's taste and favourite genre. I found the closed ones better (more natural) for acoustic music (blues etc.) while I miss a bit of bass and highs are a bit too aggressive for metal music (for which I blame the mastering, not the headphones).

I almost got the same problem, when I replaced my HD 202 with my HD 215.

[MedO]

Then again, when I listened to them for a bit my ears seemed to adapt, and switching back to the PX100s the bass appeared to be exaggerated and the highs too silent. However, even after some listening the PXC250s still sounded a bit too bright.

I have switched from HD 490 (cheap, open) to HD 215 (more expensive, closed) and the story is very similar. But I can honestly say that HD 490 are just overbassed and with poor treble, not the other way around (HD 215 poor on bass and exaggerated treble).
Perhaps the satisfaction is also connected to one's taste and favourite genre. I found the closed ones better (more natural) for acoustic music (blues etc.) while I miss a bit of bass and highs are a bit too aggressive for metal music (for which I blame the mastering, not the headphones).

I almost got the same problem, when I replaced my HD 202 with my HD 215.

I think I'm going to buy the 215s. After listening for a while to the PX250s I have come to appreciate the strong highs so the change in sound probably isn't a problem. Also, I don't mind if people give me strange looks on the train because I'm wearing big headphones . The Ultrasones are a bit outside my price range, and I think in-canal phones would become uncomfortable quite fast.

Do the HD 215s sound decent when driven with a small mp3 player? I own a Samsung YP-U2 which can supply 20mW (at 16 Ohm) according to the manual. If that would work well I'll probably get it.

[Martel]

I think I'm going to buy the 215s. After listening for a while to the PX250s I have come to appreciate the strong highs so the change in sound probably isn't a problem. Also, I don't mind if people give me strange looks on the train because I'm wearing big headphones . The Ultrasones are a bit outside my price range, and I think in-canal phones would become uncomfortable quite fast.

Do the HD 215s sound decent when driven with a small mp3 player? I own a Samsung YP-U2 which can supply 20mW (at 16 Ohm) according to the manual. If that would work well I'll probably get it.

The best would be if you could bring your favourite CD to a shop and listen to HD 215 before you buy them.

I can try them tomorrow morning on my mother's Iriver T60 (2x15mW). But the HD 215 have quite a high sensitivity so I guess it will not be much of a problem to drive them.

Just to make things clear - HD 215 have very good bass going deep into infrasound (ASUS Xonar DX made an impressive diffence compared to Live 5.1 with these headphones and the lowest bass). It's just not that exaggerated as it is with more commercial models of headphones.

[MedO]

The best would be if you could bring your favourite CD to a shop and listen to HD 215 before you buy them.

I can try them tomorrow morning on my mother's Iriver T60 (2x15mW). But the HD 215 have quite a high sensitivity so I guess it will not be much of a problem to drive them.

I don't know any local audio shop, will have to ask some friends if they know a good one. So your help would be much appreciated.

Just to make things clear - HD 215 have very good bass going deep into infrasound (ASUS Xonar DX made an impressive diffence compared to Live 5.1 with these headphones and the lowest bass). It's just not that exaggerated as it is with more commercial models of headphones.

That's what I was hoping. As long as the bass is there, I can always exaggerate it myself

This post has been edited by MedO: Jul 11 2008, 20:14

[Martel]

Listening to HD 215 on Iriver T60 now... It is very loud on max. volume (I just woke up and it is pretty much unlistenable at that volume).
Compared to Xonar, the treble are somewhat lacking (lowpass at 16-17 kHz I guess) so it doesn't sound so much aggressive. Regarding bass, it is very good for a portable player. Overall, the sound is not as clear as with the soundcard but it is still pleasant.

One more thing which might not be obvious and which may bother you when carrying HD 215 around - the cable is not straight, the middle half of the cable is bent into a spring. When I stand and drop the player, the spring begins right under my breast. Unextended, the cable reaches roughly up to my calf (I'm at 180cm). I haven't tried carrying those headphones around so I cannot really tell if it's bothersome but the excess cable fits into a pocket without much problems if you twist it.

[MedO]

Listening to HD 215 on Iriver T60 now... It is very loud on max. volume (I just woke up and it is pretty much unlistenable at that volume).
Compared to Xonar, the treble are somewhat lacking (lowpass at 16-17 kHz I guess) so it doesn't sound so much aggressive. Regarding bass, it is very good for a portable player. Overall, the sound is not as clear as with the soundcard but it is still pleasant.

One more thing which might not be obvious and which may bother you when carrying HD 215 around - the cable is not straight, the middle half of the cable is bent into a spring. When I stand and drop the player, the spring begins right under my breast. Unextended, the cable reaches roughly up to my calf (I'm at 180cm). I haven't tried carrying those headphones around so I cannot really tell if it's bothersome but the excess cable fits into a pocket without much problems if you twist it.

It should be ok I think.

I've just ordered the HD-215s for 50€. Thank you all for your help!

[Martel]

The cable is detachable from the headphones (they have a female 3,5 mm jack in the left cup) so you might as well make your own cable to suit your needs. I forgot to mention this earlier...

[MedO]

Ok, after some weeks of waiting and writing to the vendor, who sent a replacement because the original shipment seems to have been lost, I have received the HD-215s. Compared them carefully to some images, too, to convince myselves they are not fakes since buying the cheapest offer on Amazon can be kind of risky in that way from what I read.

My impressions so far: The highs are somewhat stronger and the bass a bit weaker than with the PX-100s, but the PXC-250s were more extreme in this respect. The bass certainly is there and extends quite far down. The stronger highs make them sound clearer in direct comparison with the PX-100s, and they seal off outside noise quite well, probably better than the PXC-250s with their active noise cancelling enabled (though I can't compare directly anymore since I sent the PXC-250s back). This might not be true for low droning noise like on a plane of course. But for my purposes and taste, I think the HD-215s were definitely the better buy, even when I discount the difference in price.

Thanks again for your help deciding.

Edit: These are subjective impressions and not backed by ABX testing, since that would be a bit tricky. So please don't TOS#8 me

This post has been edited by MedO: Aug 9 2008, 15:32