Loveless listening Options

[DZ-015]

Hi,

This morning I decided to dip into my back catalogue and transcoded a copy of My Bloody Valentine's 'Loveless' from FLAC to m4a at 400Kbps VBR for listening on my Sony Ericsson w910i Walkman phone.

The phone is adequate for listening to most types of music when I'm on the move and I'm aware of it's limitations in terms of reproducing high quality audio.

I was a bit surprised to find that 'Loveless' was pretty much unlistenable on the w910i. I'm no audiophile, so I'd like to understand the reasons why I had to skip to another album after 2 songs. The phone sounded like it was struggling to reproduce the music - bass was extremely heavy and muddy and I struggled to hear the separation between the guitar layers and samples.

(1) Was that particular record mastered specially?

(2) Is 400Kbps VBR pushing the phone beyond what it is capable of?

(3) Would investing in a better set of headphones improve my on the move listening experience?

I use dbpoweramp to rip and transcode my music.

Thanks.

DZ

[sinspawn]

Check to see if you have enabled "Stereo seperation" in the playback settings. If that is the case, disable it immediately and try listening again.

Also, 400 kbps is overkill for pretty much everything, especially portable playback. If you use Q40 (around 130 kbit) you probably won't be able to tell the difference, but your phone can now hold more music and your batterylife might improve as well.

This post has been edited by sinspawn: Aug 8 2008, 11:48

[Synthetic Soul]

Superb album BTW.

Have you tried 400kbps previously? It seems like complete overkill. If you've never used it before I would have thought it would be the first thing to cut out of the equation.

Technically, I have very little to offer in this discussion, save to point out that Loveless uses heavy distortion and all sorts of weird and wonderful audio effects. My ~132kbps MP3s (-V5) sound fine to me though.

NB: The opening to Loomer, track two, is intentionally very distorted.

All I'm trying to say is: I would try a less distorted album at 400kbps, and Loveless at 128kbps, and see what you find.

Edit: BTW, When You Sleep and Sometimes are two of my favourites. It is a very good album all round though.

This post has been edited by Synthetic Soul: Aug 8 2008, 12:12

[slks]

I don't use dBpoweramp, but its website seems to indicate that it uses the Nero AAC encoder for it's AAC conversion duties. I converted the first track of Loveless using Nero AAC at ~210 kb/s VBR, and gave it a listen and detected no audible deterioration compared with the original.

Let's try to reduce the number of variables we are testing here. Play the .m4a'd Loveless at home using your regular listening equipment, be it a stereo or your computer or whatever. Do an ABX test if you have the patience or time. If it sounds identical to the FLAC version, we can rule out an issue with the encoding.

My gut feeling, since 400 kb/s AAC is plenty enough for transparency (even overkill, I'd say), is that the headphones are to blame for the subpar listening experience. Loveless is a very layered and nuanced recording, so the poor quality of your headphones may be more apparent while listening to Loveless than with most other music. The earbuds that come with most portable players are, quite frankly, junk.

There might also be some EQ settings on the phone that are contributing.

[DZ-015]

OK, thanks guys. Plenty of suggestions there.
I'll dig a bit deeper and let you know how I get on.

Thanks again.

[odyssey]

Also be sure to disable any EQ on the phone. It pretty much messes up everything.

I watched a thread lately that I think suggested that audio quality were improved in later firmware revisions. I just updated to the latest firmware, but has not noticed anything but EQ seem a little less distorted now.

Also I would recommend using a more moderate (more commonly supported) bitrate around 128-192 and try both mp3 and m4a.

[DZ-015]

Guess what? It was the earphones. Complete junk.
Bought a pair of JVC Air cushions as recommended over on the Head-Fi forums and noticed an amazing difference in detail. It was almost as if Belinda Butcher was sitting beside me on the bus (I wish).

Thanks to slks for the top tip - junk the earphones that come with Sony Ericsson products 'cause they're SHIT...

DZ

This post has been edited by DZ-015: Aug 9 2008, 15:09

[Slipstreem]

Don't forget to try a lower bitrate too as suggested. I'd guess that 400Kbps is around three times what you actually need for transparency on pretty much any player with any headphones. Why take up three times the storage space for what is almost definitely no gain whatsoever audibly?

Cheers, Slipstreem.

[Boiled Beans]

Guess what? It was the earphones. Complete junk.
Bought a pair of JVC Air cushions as recommended over on the Head-Fi forums and noticed an amazing difference in detail. It was almost as if Belinda Butcher was sitting beside me on the bus (I wish).

Thanks to slks for the top tip - junk the earphones that come with Sony Ericsson products 'cause they're SHIT...

DZ

Was the provided earphones the in-ear ones? I own a W850i. I originally thought the earphones were rubbish too. Then I tried each of the 3 different sizes of the provided sleeves. In the end, it was the smallest sleeve which gave the best sound reproduction because it fitted furthest into the ear.

This post has been edited by Boiled Beans: Aug 9 2008, 17:09

[DZ-015]

Was the provided earphones the in-ear ones? I own a W850i. I originally thought the earphones were rubbish too. Then I tried each of the 3 different sizes of the provided sleeves. In the end, it was the smallest sleeve which gave the best sound reproduction because it fitted furthest into the ear.

Hi Boiled Beans,

Yes it's a W910 with the in-ear phones. I tried different sized sleeves with varying degrees of success, but the replacement 'phones blew the Sony ones out the water.

I also disabled 'Stereo Widening' and the equalizer. These only serve to distort playback and make everything sound less natural.

Cheers,

DZ.

This post has been edited by DZ-015: Aug 11 2008, 12:45