Mastering Vinyl, Myths, questions, discussion Options

[Axon]

This is a split of a discussion Hancoque and I had, which desperately needs to be elaborated on.

First of all, I've dumped my thoughts on the matter into the Wiki: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?ti...Vinyl_Mastering. Please comment on it.

A couple of the points there are explicitly worth starting this topic off:

• There is no consistent, unambiguous way to identify the provenance of a vinyl master. Most methods - but most of all, the zoomed-out waveform plot - are inaccurate in one way or another. Visual examination of clipped samples is fairly telling, but not applicable or effective in all cases. How can a vinyl master be accurately observed as being the same or different as a CD master?
• Even if a difference exists, whether or not it is audible is another question entirely. IIRC, brickwall limiting of 3-4db, correctly applied, may not be audible. If so, Hancoque's Slayer waveforms might not mean anything, because his peaks are all within 4db of the CD peaks. What audibility thresholds exist for clipped signals?

That said, I may be eating a hearty dinner of crow tonight, as I just examined one of the records I thought was of the same master as the CD (Battles - Mirrored), and I was able to observe pretty strong differences in clipping between the vinyl and CD versions. I'll reply later with some visual examples.

[analog scott]

Axon,

The wiki page says "The CD and vinyl masters might just be exactly the same: the same signal that goes on the ADC goes on the cutting head." which can't be true, since the signal cut to the LP must have the standard RIAA pre-emphasis applied. Just add "via the RIAA pre-emphasis".

(I know it's a wiki, but my account isn't verified, and I'll forget!).

Cheers,
David.

It would be more accurate to say the same signal goes to the ADC and the preamp that feeds the cutting lathe.

[Arnold B. Kruege...]

Axon,

The wiki page says "The CD and vinyl masters might just be exactly the same: the same signal that goes on the ADC goes on the cutting head." which can't be true, since the signal cut to the LP must have the standard RIAA pre-emphasis applied. Just add "via the RIAA pre-emphasis".

(I know it's a wiki, but my account isn't verified, and I'll forget!).

Cheers,
David.

It would be more accurate to say the same signal goes to the ADC and the preamp that feeds the cutting lathe.

A quality LP would rarely if ever made that way, because you need to condition many if not most of the signals you would record on a CD to make them fit within the limited dynamic range of the LP. The dynamic range limits of the LP conditioned the entire music production business back in the day. Music was even sometimes arranged and played so that it would "fit".