Samples from USB Turntables: Audio-Technica AT-LP2D-USB Options

[Axon]

Fun times. I told you to get a carbon brush

That's almost guaranteed to be an unfair recording of the AT, then, because it would up cleaning the record so the rest of the tables don't have to. A lot of crud develops on/around the contact points of the stylus that drastically affects the sound. Try rerecording it and see how different it is.

[Knowzy]

That's almost guaranteed to be an unfair recording of the AT, then, because it would [be cleaning up] the record so the rest of the tables don't have to.

Good point.

Well, fair is fair. I re-recorded the sample following these steps:

1. Removed the debris seen in the photo
2. Used Magic Eraser on the stylus
3. Played Rhiannon twice to make sure the stylus has done all the cleaning it's going to do
4. Used ME again
5. Recorded Rhiannon for the new sample

The first post has the new sample. Here are the two samples side-by-side:

• Rhiannon (Dirty version)
• Rhiannon (Cleaner version)

This post has been edited by Knowzy: Feb 23 2009, 07:30

[Axon]

Just a status update - I got most of the demodulation working over the weekend but it has a lot of warts I need to address. Still, the results are shockingly beautiful so far. It will be most interesting to compare them against other tables.

I haven't had any time to work on this since then - I've been a little distracted by the whole Pleasurize thing, but I'm spending a pretty minimal amount of time on that too.

[Arnold B. Kruege...]

Just a status update - I got most of the demodulation working over the weekend but it has a lot of warts I need to address. Still, the results are shockingly beautiful so far. It will be most interesting to compare them against other tables.

I haven't had any time to work on this since then - I've been a little distracted by the whole Pleasurize thing, but I'm spending a pretty minimal amount of time on that too.

If this helps, I'm waiting with bated breath to see how your little demodulator works. I'm not nearly as excited about dynamic range. What would be really cool is if it would put out a .wav files of both AM and FM so that each could be analyzed separately.

[Axon]

Thanks for the cheerleading. Demodulating AM is trivial, I just dropped it in and it took 5 minutes. Now, getting the AM demodulation to sync up with the FM will cost you...

I'll post a new thread sometime in the next few days with some preliminary findings, because the software will clearly find use beyond this project. Some of the results may shock the reader. Viewer discretion is advised.


This post has been edited by Axon: Feb 26 2009, 21:30

[Knowzy]

Thanks for the cheerleading.

And if I haven't said it enough, thanks for lending your time and expertise to this project.

I'll post a new thread sometime in the next few days with some preliminary findings, because the software will clearly find use beyond this project. Some of the results may shock the reader. Viewer discretion is advised.

Sounds great. I can't wait to see it.

I'm needledropping with the Ion TTUSB05 as I write and should have the entire set of samples this Saturday. Lots more data to run through your software! It will be interesting to see the difference (or not) between the two turntables.

[Arnold B. Kruege...]

Thanks for the cheerleading. Demodulating AM is trivial, I just dropped it in and it took 5 minutes. Now, getting the AM demodulation to sync up with the FM will cost you...

I'll post a new thread sometime in the next few days with some preliminary findings, because the software will clearly find use beyond this project. Some of the results may shock the reader. Viewer discretion is advised.

Again, waiting with bated breath. ;-)

What you find may shock some, but I think I've been prepared by years of FFT analysis that suggests that massive FM distortion is part and parcel of the usual LP listening experience. It's ironic that ragazines that IMO push vinyl so hard like SP, have been obsessing all these years over the relatively small FM distortion in digital players.

Some suggest that the ear's reduced sensitivity to LF FM distortion is the reason why most tolerate it, but I'm beginning to suspect that years of forced ear training to simply ignore it is also a strong cause.

Primary problem IME - off-center holes, followed by record warps.

BTW for whatever reason, I just can't stand lots of FM distortion. I was sooooo happy when the CD came out, because that was pretty much the cure. I had previously discovered that I really liked music with reduced FM by listening to live music, early digital recordings, and good tape recordings, not that the latter are exactly free of it.

[Axon]

Post is up:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=69961

Please split off general discussions on wow/flutter over to there, and we'll continue focusing on sample analysis here.

The exact nature of the wow/flutter analysis to use here isn't quite obvious to me - is it necessary to post AM spectra? How high a frequency limit is necessary? - and I have not yet implemented the weighting filter, so the truly final wow/flutter results for the LP2D will probably wait until samples from other tables come in, and the measurements that best illustrate the differences between them can be used.

[tiptoe]

Hey: I looked at one of your close-up pics and that reminded me. While you're at it, could you also be sure to clean the stylus with a Magic Eraser before

I always wonder what's in the magic erasers that makes them clean well. I'd be kind of nervous about using one on a stylus for that reason. With my luck, the cantilever would rot away or something.

I recently picked up a refurbed AT-LP2D-USB and it works quite well. (I was unable to get the included Cakewalk Pyro to work, but Audacity works fine so I don't care about Cakewalk.)

I've still got an old carbon anti-static brush, so I'm all set to transfer some of those old LPs to CD.

It's nice when a product does what it's supposed to and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

[Knowzy]

Strange- I didn't get a reply notification when tiptoe replied. In any case...

I recently picked up a refurbed AT-LP2D-USB and it works quite well. (I was unable to get the included Cakewalk Pyro to work, but Audacity works fine so I don't care about Cakewalk.)

...

It's nice when a product does what it's supposed to and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I'm curious where you had trouble getting Cakewalk Audio Creator to work.

I reviewed Cakewalk for the USB turntable guide and it did take some time to learn. Two big stumbling points:

1. You need to press the button on the bottom left to hear the turntable audio.
2. After you hit the record button, you need to hit the pause button to start recording.

I produced an illustration (below) showing the steps to recording but never published it (until now).

In this price range (~ $100), I prefer the Ion TTUSB. Here's why:

1. Both TT's gain is fixed. But the Audio-Technica is fixed at a high level and it caused clipping on one of the LPs I tested. There is nothing you can do about the clipping.
2. The AT-3600L cartridge tracks very forcefully- 4.54 grams. Compare that to Crosley's ceramic cartridge at 4.62 grams. The TTUSB05 I tested came in at 3.08 grams. Still not ideal but hey, we're talking about a < $100 turntable. BTW, I added a Recommended Tracking Force column to table 4 in the guide.
3. Unlike the TTUSB, the Audio-Technica has no anti-skate adjustment and no way to upgrade the cartridge.

A good thing about the AT is the aluminum platter. The Ion is plastic.

I also suspect the materials in general are better on the AT (despite the cart) for two reasons: The warranty is a year vs. 90 days for the Ion and, of the three USB TT's I tested, the AT was the only one that didn't arrive defective in some way.