LAME, CBR, VBR,.... I'm confused! |
LAME, CBR, VBR,.... I'm confused! |
Mar 26 2003, 19:51
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#1
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Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 26-March 03 From: Latvia Member No.: 5684 |
Hi!
This is my first post on this board, and the reason why I'm posting is to find an explanation for one particular, interesting issue of LAME MP3 compression... I took a sample from a live instrumental concert with clear high-frequency sounds. I compressed it with two different settings, using LAME 3.91. -b 192 -m j -h -q 0 (= 192kbps constant, joint stereo, quality-optimised, max. quality) and --alt-preset standard, which produced a slightly larger file, the bitrate averaging at 200kbps. The results were both quite good and I couldn't tell the difference in sound - maybe I lack the equipment. I performed a spectral frequency analysis on each of the results. Here's what it looked like: ![]() Let's look at the left image: the frequency meter suggests thet there's a sharp cut at 16kHz. Nevertheless, some sounds are given higher frequencies, but then there is another sharp cut just under 19kHz, above which nothing can be seen. Now the right image: up to about 16kHz the frequencies are generally preserved. Then they gradually become thinner in a varying manner, depending, i suppose, on their importance. There is no sharp cut below ~19.8kHz. I do not know much abot audio compression - maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole thing - so I'd like you to ask you first: which picture do you think corresponds to which compression method? Immo |
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Mar 26 2003, 22:11
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Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 26-March 03 From: Latvia Member No.: 5684 |
Thanks for the replies, folks.
All who guessed, guessed right about --alt-preset standard - it's the picture on the left. But there's something bugging me. I really didn't say anything about which sample sounds better - either my ears or my headphones are too bad for that. But REGARDLESS of the audible result it was a surprise for me to see that the lowpass filter, considering the two clearly visible boundaries, is applied much earlier in a VBR algorythm than in CBR. A question arises: how is the advantage of VBR being used? I earlier thought that VBR provides the possibility to preserve a broader range of frequencies where it is needed and cut down on them where it isn't. As far as I understand, the VBR codec (like any other) "considers" the lower frequencies more important and cuts off the higher ones, which is, of course, a good idea to some extent, as people don't hear them very well. But then why does the CBR codec leave so much of them? It could as well apply a lower lowpass filter if it's such a good idea, but it doesn't. Why? After all, it's the same version of the same encoder, so the applied techniques are surely coordinated. Doesn't this fact surprise you a bit? Just a little bit??? Or have I just gone mad? The point is, I don't believe that the marginally higher frequencies preserved in the CBR really destroy the overall sound quality, especially they wouldn't in a VBR codec, where there is a possibility to assign more bits at a particular point... Regards, Immo This post has been edited by Immo: Mar 26 2003, 22:24 |
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Immo LAME, CBR, VBR,.... I'm confused! Mar 26 2003, 19:51
/\/ephaestous YOU CANT' SAY SOMETHING SOUNDS BETTER BASED ON... Mar 26 2003, 19:59
ff123 I'd say that --alt-preset standard is the pict... Mar 26 2003, 20:46
evereux QUOTE (/\/ephaestous @ Mar 26 2003 - 06:... Mar 26 2003, 21:08
Pio2001 The left picture must be alt preset standard, beca... Mar 26 2003, 21:12
outscape i have to agree with /\/ephaestous on this.. ... Mar 26 2003, 21:18
/\/ephaestous QUOTE (evereux @ Mar 26 2003 - 03:08 PM)QUOTE... Mar 26 2003, 21:21
Andavari QUOTE (Immo @ Mar 26 2003 - 03:11 PM)The poin... Mar 26 2003, 22:38
[proxima] QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Mar 26 2003 - 09:12 PM)-h -b... Mar 26 2003, 23:11
LordSyl Please, don't confuse newbies with those stupi... Mar 26 2003, 23:54
Pio2001 Right, right,
It started when I was about to write... Mar 27 2003, 00:30
mithrandir QUOTE (Immo @ Mar 26 2003 - 04:11 PM)A questi... Mar 27 2003, 01:43
NeoRenegade I just wanted to point out, Immo, that your comman... Mar 27 2003, 06:46
Immo Good afternoon,
thanks for the tip, NeoRenegade, ... Mar 27 2003, 13:08
Pio2001 QUOTE (Immo @ Mar 27 2003 - 03:08 PM)I suppos... Mar 27 2003, 14:28
Immo Sorry, you're right!
What I meant was th... Mar 27 2003, 15:12
Lev /\/ephaestous:
QUOTE YOU CANT' SAY SOMET... Mar 27 2003, 17:36
Gecko Immo: VBR isn't about preserving HF content. I... Mar 27 2003, 17:58
Immo Lev: it gets even more ironic when the author make... Mar 27 2003, 18:39
deej_1977 QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Mar 27 2003 - 03:28 PM)Addin... Mar 27 2003, 18:47
LordSyl CBR is shit...always. The entire fact of giving th... Mar 27 2003, 19:30
sony666 CBR is not "always shit", plz stay serio... Mar 28 2003, 01:58
NeoRenegade The lame development team works on the encoder and... Mar 28 2003, 03:29
roman To Immo
About your 1st pictures...
Can you think a... Mar 28 2003, 08:38
Oge_user QUOTE (Immo @ Mar 27 2003 - 12:08 PM)I tried ... Mar 28 2003, 10:52
DigitalDictator sony666
QUOTE If you plan to use your encodes for... Mar 28 2003, 11:57
Immo Roman: I guess ti prav explaining how VBR acts
... Mar 28 2003, 19:12
Immo Oge_user:I just tried it, the results weren't ... Mar 28 2003, 19:25
sony666 QUOTE (DigitalDictator @ Mar 28 2003 - 11:57 ... Mar 28 2003, 23:48![]() ![]() |
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