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HDCD Decoder, Process or play lossless rips of your HDCDs
HammerSandwich
post Sep 1 2010, 01:04
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I get it now. It's been in & working, but I'd been checking in the console rather than adding the HDCD indicator to my status bar. Probably not a bad idea to refresh the docs/first post for the latest version.
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Nowings69
post Sep 1 2010, 13:51
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My new HDCD.png

ttp://www.megaupload.com/?d=FCIU7VOO
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kumbbl
post Sep 2 2010, 11:26
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QUOTE (kode54 @ Aug 31 2010, 13:10) *
Version 1.5 is no longer a DSP, so it won't appear in the DSP manager.


I'm using Foobar 1.1 and hdcd-decoder 1.5 - well, i have understood, that it is not a DSP and therefore not listed in the DSP-list... I assume i have to enable the checkbox "enable decode postprocessing - for decoding DTS, HDCD etc...." in the Processing-Folder in the Converter-dialog, right?

But: Is there anything else to do to switch on this hdcd-processor? Sorry for a maybe dump question but what does this checkbox do? is this documented anywhere? Must i be aware about replay gain provessing as mentioned at the beginning of this thread...

Sorry again for maybe foolish questions, but aftre reading this thread i'm currently slightly confused what is now exactly to do in Foobar 1.1 with hdcd 1.5 to decode HDCD-encoded files correctly and to pass through "normal" (ie. no HDCD-encoding) audio-files?

Thanks a lot of in advance!



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Yirkha
post Sep 2 2010, 11:39
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Playback: file -> decoder -> HDCD postprocessor -> replaygain -> DSPs (if enabled) -> soundcard.
Converter: file -> decoder -> HDCD posprocessor (if that checkbox is enabled) -> replaygain (if enabled) -> DSPs (if enabled) -> encoder -> ...


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Full-quoting makes you scroll past the same junk over and over.
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kumbbl
post Sep 2 2010, 12:07
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QUOTE (Yirkha @ Sep 2 2010, 04:39) *
Playback: file -> decoder -> HDCD postprocessor -> replaygain -> DSPs (if enabled) -> soundcard.
Converter: file -> decoder -> HDCD posprocessor (if that checkbox is enabled) -> replaygain (if enabled) -> DSPs (if enabled) -> encoder -> ...


ah, thanks! If i understand you right then for Playback there is nothing to do (if the hdcd 1.5 ist installed) - HDCD-encoded files will be automatically encoded and others will be passed through
And for converting the only thing to do is to enable this checkbox...

may i ask you a concret example? well, here it is:

1. There is a flac-file xxx.flac from a HDCD-encoded CD, replay-gain-scanned after ripping with a track-gain-value of -1.79 - Ripping has been done wit Foobar 1.1 but BEFORE hdcd-decoder has been installed!)

In the playback preferences of foobar 1.1 i have set:
replaygain source-mode: track, processing: apply gain
Preamp: with RG-info: +5 db (94 db), without RG-info: 0 db

Now after installing hdcd 1.5:

2. I have concerted xxx.flac with the folling settings: Output-format: flac, 24 bit, Processing: hdcd-checkbox enabled, no DSPs, no Replay-Gain, Others: Replay-Gain scan output as albums
result: xxx-converted.flac

3. then i have two files:
xxx.flac with this properties: trackgain: -1.79, track-peak: 0.90, HDCD:yes
xxx-converted.flac with this properties trackgain: +4.23, track-peak: 0.45, HDCD:no

4. Now playback of both files with above mentioned RG- and preamp-Preferenecs: xxx-converted.flac sounds much louder the the original xxx.flac - but the RG-values would indicate the opposite behaviour... i do not understand this...

Could anybody please explain me points 3 and 4? This would be very nice!

Thanks a lot in advance!
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Alex B
post Sep 2 2010, 15:27
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You would need to re-analyze the old files. The old replay gain values are not correct when the files are decoded with the HDCD decoder.

I am quoting my old reply, because the problem is still persistent:

QUOTE (Alex B @ Jul 28 2010, 22:09) *
Replay Gain works now, but I think the current implementation is still a bit problematic. If the files have been measured using a standard decoder the old values are now incorrect when the files are played through the HDCD Decoder and it reduces the volume level. It is possible to reanalyze the files, but then the values will be incorrect on other players.

At least it would be nice to have an easily accessible on/off switch for HDCD decoding so that it could be switched off when mixed playlists are played and when Replay Gain is analyzed.

Here is a screenshot of the old and newly analyzed "HDCD" RG values for one album:


...

We have now a switch in the converter, but that does not help if the user sometimes wants to switch HDCD off when the files are played or if the user wants to analyze and store replay gain tags that are correct on any "non-HDCD" player.


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kode54
post Sep 2 2010, 19:09
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I may add an option to boost the gain of HDCD decoded material by 6dB, even if that would push peaks of peak extended material up to 1.5. It has come to my attention that there are a number of places where this would be necessary, such as albums where only a few tracks are HDCD encoded, which would possibly throw off the album gain level.
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Alex B
post Sep 2 2010, 21:01
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I think +6 db would be correct only when peak extension is not used.

After I posted my reply in July I have checked about two thousand albums and found about 25 HDCDs. Only three or four of them use peak extension, but when it is used the measured replay gain values seem to differ less than 6 dB when compared with "non-HDCD" decoding. A bit surprisingly some of the HDCD albums don't have any indication of the HDCD encoding in the printed artwork.

And you are correct about albums that contain only some HDCD encoded tracks, I found a few such albums.


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eevan
post Sep 5 2010, 21:06
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I rip my CDs to disc images with tracks referenced by apl files. I noticed this with EAC ripped FLAC images of a few HDCD disks that I have.
When I play the track (apl file), HDCD postprocessor doesn't report HDCD (%__hdcd% variable returns ?) but processing is in fact done (because the level is 6 dB lower. For the test, I converted the image to TAK format so the postprocessor can't decode it, and peaks are then near 0 dB). If I load the cuesheet instead, I get values for all variables. Also, 'Scan for HDCD tracks' works with the image itself and with the cuesheet loaded tracks, but not with apl referenced tracks.
It's not annoying, I just wanted to report smile.gif

Cheers!


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Orion25
post Sep 6 2010, 23:35
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kode54, thanks for this long waited component!
It would be excellent, if HDCD decoder would work with Monkey's Audio source. When it will be possible?
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kode54
post Sep 6 2010, 23:54
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QUOTE (Orion25 @ Sep 6 2010, 15:35) *
kode54, thanks for this long waited component!
It would be excellent, if HDCD decoder would work with Monkey's Audio source. When it will be possible?

As soon as Peter updates the Monkey's Audio component.
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GeSomeone
post Sep 7 2010, 12:33
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QUOTE (kode54 @ Sep 2 2010, 20:09) *
albums where only a few tracks are HDCD encoded...

blink.gif What happens when these are played on a HW player that supports HDCD?
Besides the fact that I have very few CD with HDCD, that I'm aware of, it's these kind of issues (like -6dB) that make me stay away of using HDCD decoding.
+6 dB (compensating or not applying the -6dB) seems to solve most issues, and after applying replaygain the peaks would be at about the same level anyway. (those can be taken care of by the advanced limiter or clip preventing settings in replaygain as usual).


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Alex B
post Sep 7 2010, 13:26
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QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Sep 7 2010, 14:33) *
What happens when these are played on a HW player that supports HDCD?

The listener would probably reach the volume knob or press the volume buttons on the remote to compensate if the HDCD tracks are too quiet. wink.gif

AFAIK, if those tracks don't contain peak extension they will just be 6 dB quieter than the other tracks if you compare the output to standard decoding. If they contain peak extension the perceived volume level difference may be more or less different.

I am going to post a detailed analysis of the albums in my collection that have peak extension and also report the albums that have only some HDCD tracks. I have not yet decided if I am going to post it here, to the recent HDCD thread on the CD Hardware/Software forum: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=83028, or to a new thread somewhere.

This post has been edited by Alex B: Sep 7 2010, 13:57


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Honeybadger
post Sep 12 2010, 22:29
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Ok, I admit it...I am completely lost, HELP!

I am now running 1.1 and removed the HDCD plugin 1.3 and put in 1.5

I see it in my plug-in list, it is greyed out meaning loaded.

I have a ton of HDCDs, Reference Recodings and others. I put in one of the discs and it just shows at 16bit so I don't know if it's decoding right.

I've looked for file/decoder...etc, I can't find the right menu/area for this...

Also how do I load the HDCD png into my Foobar2000?

I know these are probably simple questions but I can't find anything be a Google search so if someone can give me a step-by-step to rub my nose in it, it would be appreciated!!
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Alex B
post Sep 13 2010, 18:52
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HDCD decoding should be enabled automatically if the HDCD decoder is placed in the components folder. The bit depth value in file properties does not show the bit depth of the decoded audio signal.

When the component is installed you can select the files and do "right-click > Utilities > Scan for HDCD tracks". It will show the scan results in a new window.

You can add a HDCD column to playlists and a HDCD status text to the Status Bar:



I use this code for the HDCD column (in Columns UI):
CODE
$if(%__hdcd%,HDCD ,)

and this for the status line:
CODE
$if(%ispaused%,Paused,Playing) | %codec% | %bitrate% kbps | %samplerate% Hz | $caps(%channels%) | %playback_time%[ / %length%][ |$if(%__hdcd%,' 'HDCD '('gain: %__hdcd_gain%',' peak extension: %__hdcd_peak_extend%')',)]

The HDCD status will be displayed during playback.

Perhaps someone else can help you with "HDCD png".


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Honeybadger
post Sep 13 2010, 20:16
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Wow Alex,

Thank you very much for your reply, time and expertise! They are very appreciated!

This will also work when I just put a HDCD disk into my CD/DVD tray and not just when I rip them, right?

Also I noticed that the displays of other HDCD desktops shows HDCD logo lighting up then they played HDCD.

How do I enable that?

Thanks again!


This post has been edited by Yirkha: Sep 13 2010, 21:52
Reason for edit: Removed useless full quote.
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Honeybadger
post Sep 13 2010, 23:43
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QUOTE (Honeybadger @ Sep 13 2010, 20:16) *
Wow Alex,

Thank you very much for your reply, time and expertise! They are very appreciated!

This will also work when I just put a HDCD disk into my CD/DVD tray and not just when I rip them, right?

Also I noticed that the displays of other HDCD desktops shows HDCD logo lighting up then they played HDCD.

How do I enable that?

Thanks again!


Ok, I got the track list to say HDCD, how do I get a status area to say it...

I am trying to figure out the panel add in FB2k but I think a nice theme would be awesome!
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-Richy-
post Sep 15 2010, 01:36
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Please Peter: Update the Monkey's Audio component that the HDCD decoder would work with Monkey's Audio source.
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Glenda
post Sep 19 2010, 13:22
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What if we have a DAC that decodes HDCD, how do we disable this v1.5 ?
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eevan
post Sep 19 2010, 16:53
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Simply remove foo_hdcd folder (and dll inside it) it from your user-components folder.
Use shift+click on File menu in foobar and click Browse configuration folder if you don't know its location.

I'm assuming you use foobar2000 v1.1.


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kode54
post Sep 19 2010, 21:03
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Or use the components page of the configuration dialog to remove it.
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Honeybadger
post Sep 19 2010, 23:41
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Ok, figured out where the playing and status scripts go..

They are lighting up with HDCDs, YAY!

They are not lighting up with my FLAKs ripped from HDCDs.

I am using DBPowerAMP r14 with the HDCD plugin, it is producing 24bit files compared to my non-HDCDs that are producing 16bit files so the data is getting processed.

What am I doing wrong?
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herojoker
post Sep 20 2010, 00:04
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The 24bit audio is the result of applying the HDCD data to the 16bit audio stream. AFAIK it's impossible to detect whether 24bit audio came from a 16bit+HDCD source.
Therefore you are doing nothing wrong. It's your choice whether you want to apply the HDCD transformations at real time (16bit in, 24bit out) or save the result and have a 24bit file.
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Honeybadger
post Sep 20 2010, 02:44
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QUOTE (herojoker @ Sep 20 2010, 00:04) *
The 24bit audio is the result of applying the HDCD data to the 16bit audio stream. AFAIK it's impossible to detect whether 24bit audio came from a 16bit+HDCD source.
Therefore you are doing nothing wrong. It's your choice whether you want to apply the HDCD transformations at real time (16bit in, 24bit out) or save the result and have a 24bit file.


Ok, cool thanks, means I don't have to re-rip the already done CDs.. What methodogy do I use to get a FLAC file that still "lights" up the HDCD?
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kode54
post Sep 20 2010, 02:58
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Ripping it without using the HDCD decoder plug-in. I'm not sure how to do that with dbpa, but with foobar2000, you just need to find and disable the PCM postprocessing feature in the converter dialog.
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