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HDCD Decoder, Process or play lossless rips of your HDCDs
n A r
post Aug 4 2010, 08:09
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Yes, it's status bar shown and it's status bar formating cool.gif
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mundschuss
post Aug 4 2010, 11:37
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so, i dont get it. i switched the output of foobar 1.1 beta 2 to 24 bit, used a HDCD (tool - lateralus) and check with utilities for HDCD, he detected for every song a HDCD track. but when i playback it nothing changes, and nothing stands in the console.

im trying right now with the "old" version of foobar and the old plugin to playback some tracks. it would be cool if there would be still a DSP plugin for foobar because it is also cool to have the actual 20 bit file on the drive IMO (for DAW or so, so you can burn e.g. a 24bit DVD so you can listen to it over realy good equipment if you dont have a HDCD player)

seeya

edit: worked with the old plugin in the old foobar now, will check if i receive full 20 bit files with a bitmeter

This post has been edited by mundschuss: Aug 4 2010, 12:26
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johnsonlam
post Aug 4 2010, 12:03
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Is the HDCD decoder working?

I test with "BeeGees-This is where I came in" but Foobar2000 did show nothing in the HDCD Scan Results window, tried both TAK compressed file and the Audio CD.

The latest HDCD decoder seems integrated into Foobar and no more a DSP, how can I know it's working correct?

Tested another "HDCD Sampler Volume 2" still nothing shown ...

This post has been edited by johnsonlam: Aug 4 2010, 12:08


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n A r
post Aug 4 2010, 12:17
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QUOTE (johnsonlam @ Aug 4 2010, 05:03) *
Is the HDCD decoder working?

I test with "BeeGees-This is where I came in" but Foobar2000 did show nothing in the HDCD Scan Results window, tried both TAK compressed file and the Audio CD.

The latest HDCD decoder seems integrated into Foobar and no more a DSP, how can I know it's working correct?

Tested another "HDCD Sampler Volume 2" still nothing shown ...

I use Kari Bremnes with the Svarta Bjorn CD ripped to flac by EAC in secure mode. With latest foobar beta and hdcd 1.5 + the status bar formating, I get a correct info about hdcd files.

Hope it helps,

n A r

This post has been edited by n A r: Aug 4 2010, 12:17
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johnsonlam
post Aug 4 2010, 12:29
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QUOTE (n A r @ Aug 4 2010, 19:17) *
I use Kari Bremnes with the Svarta Bjorn CD ripped to flac by EAC in secure mode. With latest foobar beta and hdcd 1.5 + the status bar formating, I get a correct info about hdcd files.


Thanks for your information, will try that.


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herojoker
post Aug 4 2010, 12:31
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Have you actually read the thread?

Steve Forte Rio said: And when it will be possible to decode HDCD from TAK source?
kode54 answered: Once the interface is finalized, and the TAK decoder component is updated to use it.

This post has been edited by herojoker: Aug 4 2010, 12:33
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mundschuss
post Aug 4 2010, 12:49
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EAC-Ripped once again my lateralus copy (by tool) with perfect settings. HDCD was detected during playback and during enbcoding (just used HDCD as DSP and created a 24 bit file.

QUOTE
CLI encoder: flac.exe
Destination file: O:\Musik\Tool\2001 - Lateralus\Tool\2001 - Lateralus\09 - Lateralus.flac
HDCD detected.
Encoder stream format: 44100Hz / 2ch / 24bps
Command line: "C:\Programme\FLAC\flac.exe" -s --ignore-chunk-sizes -8 - -o "09 - Lateralus.flac"
Working folder: O:\Musik\Tool\2001 - Lateralus\Tool\2001 - Lateralus\
Encoder process still running, waiting...
Encoder process terminated cleanly.
Track converted successfully.


and checked in wavelab 6 with cakewalk bitlevel while encoding the 24bit flacs back to 24 bit wavs (shouldnt be a problem, right?)

so, see here the results:

first one, the original EAC-FLAC, converted as 24bit wav:


as you see, theres no information on the section from 16 to 24 bit, as expected because its only 16 bit (even if its a 24 bit file)


so, lets try the same with the HDCD encoded file (as 24bit wave). remember, it was HDCD detected, even on the encoding process.



so, you can see, there is no difference in the bitmeter, the range between 16 and 20 bit is still empty. the only thing is this version is around 6dB quieter then the EAC FLAC.


and thats what a 24 bit file looks like (Discipline by Nine Inch Nails, from their album The Slip, 24/96 version)




so, whats wrong?

This post has been edited by mundschuss: Aug 4 2010, 12:50
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n A r
post Aug 4 2010, 13:10
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The ripped .wav or even encoded in .flac by EAC keeps the hdcd tag in least significant bit.
For convenience I stock flac files only. So whenever I want to get the real 20-24 bit file (depends of original encoding anyways),
I use eac3to which outputs me correct full 24 bit wavs, even if often the first 20 bits are used (4 bits empty as padding I guess).

I'll try to grab a copy of the said wav file decoded in more than 16 bits definition running in Wavelab 6 this evening with the bits window open

Brds,

nAr
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mundschuss
post Aug 4 2010, 13:29
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tried it now with eac3to and still the same problem...

eac3to log:
QUOTE
eac3to v3.22
command line: C:\eac3to\eac3to.exe "C:\01 - The Grudge.flac" "C:\01test.wav" -decodeHdcd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FLAC, 2.0 channels, 0:08:36, 16 bits <HDCD>, 865kbps, 44.1kHz
Decoding FLAC...
Writing WAV...
Decoding HDCD information...
Creating file "C:\01test.wav"...
Original audio track: max 20 bits, average 17 bits, most common 17 bits.
eac3to processing took 15 seconds.
Done.


will try another HDCD, maybe tool failed on this one.

seeya
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mundschuss
post Aug 4 2010, 13:44
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worked with mark knopfler's sailing to philadelphia with eac3to...so it seems that the tool CD failed at mastering, but it has the HDCD logo on it and it is detected as 16 bit.

thats the picture from speedway at naazarteh:


you can clearly see the 20 bits smile.gif

yay

edit: you can already see it at the filesize: the tool record was only increased by 2kbps, the mark knopfler record increased over 100kbps which is quiet ok for 20 bit.

seeya

This post has been edited by mundschuss: Aug 4 2010, 13:46
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johnsonlam
post Aug 4 2010, 18:26
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QUOTE (herojoker @ Aug 4 2010, 19:31) *
Have you actually read the thread?

Steve Forte Rio said: And when it will be possible to decode HDCD from TAK source?
kode54 answered: Once the interface is finalized, and the TAK decoder component is updated to use it.


Thanks for your bitter question, I've read the thread, but this is too long and I'm waiting for nice guys to show me directly.

I know TAK is not ready, that's why I put the Audio CD in the drive and test, and I'm quite surprise Foobar2000 v1.0.3 HDCD scan is nothing, then I upgraded to the latest v1.1 beta2 but still got nothing, then I tried rip from Foobar2000, and scan the WAV, still nothing ...

I left the PC alone and went out several hours, come back and test again, this time the scan result of Audio CD finally display the track was HDCD encoded, but ripped WAV still none ...

At last, I downloaded the latest EAC (I didn't use it for 2 years), and now I got the correct scan result, this proof that the Foobar2000's built-in ripping is NOT accurate.

Next question (sorry I really don't know), if I converted the HDCD WAV to FLAC or TAK with Foobar2000, will the HDCD content become decoded and I can use other players to play the converted FLAC with HDCD effect?

Thanks, really appreciate those nice people replied.


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kode54
post Aug 4 2010, 21:18
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HDCD doesn't magically add bit precision. If, like the Tool - Lateralus album, none of the HDCD features are used, then the only result of passing it through a HDCD decoder will be a 6dB reduction in volume. The only way to actually increase the bit precision in any way is to use the peak extension feature, or the gain reduction feature. And even then, it's not perfect.

I suppose it should also be possible to apply a low pass filter to the least significant bit dithering, to somehow simulate higher bit depth, but that seems kind of silly.

Also, reminding everyone again since we're on a new page, this new version only works with foobar2000 version 1.1, beta 1 or newer.
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mundschuss
post Aug 4 2010, 23:23
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the problem seems to be that the HDCD.exe thing thats everyone using does not seem to work for some albums, such as lateralus.

QUOTE
The problem is that Lateralus uses HDCD features we don't know about; they are hidden away in patents and proprietary software, and the guy who implemented hdcd.exe could only go off the two publicly released algorithms.


seeya
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kode54
post Aug 5 2010, 01:26
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I modified the hdcd decoder a bit to collect some statistics, and also designed a simple console application which takes assumed stereo WAV files, skips the header, and parses only the left channel through the decoder, to detect present features. It had this to say:

CODE
Tool - Lateralus.wav: HDCD (packets(47284 / 47284) gain(-4.0 dB / 0.0 dB))


47284 detected HDCD packet headers (01111100000111111000000b sequence output from LFSR, most significant bit first) and 47284 of those resulting in a status byte being read from the input data. The status byte has room for the gain level (low 4 bits, range 0-15 translating to 0.0 ... -7.5 dB) and four feature bits. Two of the feature bits are known, peak extension and transient filter. Only the peak extension feature is supported by the decoder disassembled from WMP. Although, as you can see from the output of my testing tool, no feature bits are used at all. From playing the album, you can see that -4.0 dB gain being applied to the first few HDCD packets, then it shifts up to 0.0 dB for the rest of the album.

I uploaded the tool source code here, so you may repeat the results yourself. If anyone cares, I could also add a proper WAV parser, but there's not much point since it already served its purpose.
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johnsonlam
post Aug 5 2010, 03:30
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QUOTE (kode54 @ Aug 5 2010, 04:18) *
Also, reminding everyone again since we're on a new page, this new version only works with foobar2000 version 1.1, beta 1 or newer.


This is the critical message since I found nothing in the documentation area.

Is it possible to let Foobar2000 pop up a window or dialog to let user know the file was HDCD encoded?
Or any variable like "%__replaygain_track_gain%" so I can display on the columns?

Thanks.


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n A r
post Aug 5 2010, 07:13
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QUOTE (kode54 @ Aug 4 2010, 18:26) *
47284 detected HDCD packet headers (01111100000111111000000b sequence output from LFSR, most significant bit first) and 47284 of those resulting in a status byte being read from the input data. The status byte has room for the gain level (low 4 bits, range 0-15 translating to 0.0 ... -7.5 dB) and four feature bits. Two of the feature bits are known, peak extension and transient filter. Only the peak extension feature is supported by the decoder disassembled from WMP. Although, as you can see from the output of my testing tool, no feature bits are used at all. From playing the album, you can see that -4.0 dB gain being applied to the first few HDCD packets, then it shifts up to 0.0 dB for the rest of the album.



Thanks for clarifying smile.gif

n A r

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herojoker
post Aug 5 2010, 09:00
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@johnsonlam: Read the previous pages in this topic, it names the variable.
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johnsonlam
post Aug 5 2010, 14:27
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QUOTE (herojoker @ Aug 5 2010, 16:00) *
@johnsonlam: Read the previous pages in this topic, it names the variable.


Thank you, someone should help rewrite it and put into the documentation.
If my English is better ...


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Rollin
post Aug 7 2010, 13:54
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Is foo_hdcd 1.5 working in converter?

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lvqcl
post Aug 7 2010, 14:51
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QUOTE (Rollin @ Aug 7 2010, 16:54) *
Is foo_hdcd 1.5 working in converter?


I think that HDCD processing should be enabled for wav->mp3 conversion and disabled for wav->flac conversion, but how to achieve this? huh.gif
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Rollin
post Aug 7 2010, 17:15
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QUOTE (lvqcl @ Aug 7 2010, 16:51) *
I think that HDCD processing should be enabled for wav->mp3 conversion and disabled for wav->flac conversion

I'm interested only in conversion HDCD to 24-bit lossless, not to lossy.
I tried to convert HDCD wav to 24-bit wav and got files with real 20 bit. Now I know foo_dsp works in converter too smile.gif

But what about applying HDCD transient filter and gain info on conversion? Is it applying or not?

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kode54
post Aug 7 2010, 19:32
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Only gain and peak extension are applied. Transient filter is not supported, as there is no reference software to base the filter on. Besides which, the transient filter is really only useful if you're also upsampling the output to 88200Hz, or at least so I've heard.
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Nowings69
post Aug 9 2010, 08:40
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QUOTE (Rollin @ Aug 7 2010, 21:54) *
Is foo_hdcd 1.5 working in converter?


No (to me,try to wav)

I use CUETools with EAC log(means disc id ,,,)

I think FB2K beta have so many problem for conversion and decoding,
if they are 3d party

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kode54
post Aug 9 2010, 20:01
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foo_hdcd 1.5 does work in the converter, but you must manually set the lossless conversion bit depth to 24.

Of course, if foo_hdcd 1.5 is installed and you use foobar2000 to rip the CD, the HDCD information will be decoded during the ripping process.
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jimmanningjr
post Aug 15 2010, 18:23
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Hey Guys, Esp. Kode, rolleyes.gif
I have been keeping up with THIS Forum since before the 1.5 update.
I happen to have a ton of Flac encoded HdCd's mostly Grateful Dead. At first i was lost as the update didnot write anything in the Console. using This:

$if(%album artist% - ,%album artist% - ,)$if(%title%,%title%,) $if(%__hdcd%,<HDCD>,) $if(%__tool% - ,%__tool% - ,)$if(%codec%[ / %__codec_profile%],%codec% [ / %__codec_profile%],) $if(<%bitrate%kbps>,<%bitrate%kbps>,) $if(%__samplerate% Hz,%__samplerate% Hz,) $if( %__bitspersample% Bit, %__bitspersample% Bit,) $if( $info(channels) Ch , $info(channels) Ch,) $if( <First played :%first_played%, < First played : %first_played%,) $if( - Last played : %last_played% > ,- Last played : %last_played% > ,)

I get it to display just fine. I too use EAC. for most of my rips...but...If I want to use Foobar to rip HDCD's I must either remove the component or manually name to foo_hdcd.dll.OFF....Is there not a way to use a switch that then can be made into a button or am I asking to much... crying.gif I have only been using Foobar for 6 months...I still use Media Monkey to sort my music after it is ripped...But i am loving this foobar much...I have learned alot by downloading other peoples setups ,taking them apart piece by piece...Thats how I got into reading and writing CODE Foobar is soooooo customizable..I just thought there may be a way to make a switch..maybe for 1.6????Thanks for having me in this great community Peace,Jimmanningjr

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