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Best turntable to "rip" dance music with no pitch changes, Anything better than the technics?
Irukandji syndro...
post Apr 24 2010, 17:04
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QUOTE (botface @ Apr 24 2010, 14:24) *
QUOTE (dv1989 @ Apr 23 2010, 22:12) *
I assume that blind tests are more difficult to perform with vinyl equipment.............

True, but I tried my best about 10 or 12 years ago when I had the OL structural modifications done to one of my RB300s. The differences were easy to spot.





I should clarify what i meant. I was implying that the std tonearm on the 1210 was a weakness from an audiophile perspective, dont get me wrong i've had various decks and they have all sounded shite compared to the 1210's with the same mixer and carts. My 1210's have served me well and i have been very happy with the sound they have provided but now i have upgraded to serato i feel i should make the best recordings i possibly can within financial reason of course! I intend to to attempt pay for all of this buy offering a (Relatively!!) high quality vinyl recording and cleaing service to anyone interested in the london area?

The guy ive got booked to fit the tonearm says that difference it makes is "pretty dramatic" and i'm pleased to hear that botface noticed some significant improvements also.

I disagree with Dv1989 as a controlled test would merely be judging recordings made with and without the tonearm under identical conditions with the same track/clip...However saying that i would love to be able to post some direct comparisons but i will be changing cartridge along with the tonearm so no direct comparison can be made.

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Oksana
post Apr 24 2010, 19:26
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I recently built a new PC and wanted a high quality sound card to match my analog rig to record vinyl to digital for cd's in the car. The difference between buying the same music on cd and recording it from analog is huge.

On good reviews I purchased the Asus Xonar Essence STX for under $200.00. So far I've been very happy with the quality. I've played it through a nice system with floor standing speakers and high quality headphones. I can add my recommendation to it for a very good sound card with high quality Analog to Digital Conversion.

I'm not sure you realize how loaded the statement, "All I want from a turntable is low rumble, constant speed, and tonearm that can track with a good cartridge." is. That's what engineers have spent years working on with a lot of improvement. I am just like you in that I can hear speed variations easliy and they can detract from the enjoyment of the music.

I hope your turntable is providing the speed stability you need and do take a look at the reviews for the Asus sound card. One nice thing is it uses ASIO drivers nicely Adobe Audition. I use that for recording through the card all the way up to 192KHz and 32bit.
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db1989
post Apr 24 2010, 19:46
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I'm not sure that you realise how loaded the statement "The difference between buying the same music on cd and recording it from analog is huge." is on Hydrogenaudio (TOS8). Also, I suspect that such sampling rates and bit depths are overkill in any situation, particularly when recording from vinyl.
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Soap
post Apr 24 2010, 20:10
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I'd just like to see the hardware that can use all 24 bits of recording bit depth, much less 32.



--------------------
Creature of habit.
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db1989
post Apr 24 2010, 21:24
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The sampling rate is more defensible; in fact, I think it highly progressive of hardware manufacturers to consider bats, cetaceans and rodents!
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Irukandji syndro...
post Apr 25 2010, 04:33
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QUOTE (dv1989 @ Apr 24 2010, 18:46) *
I'm not sure that you realise how loaded the statement "The difference between buying the same music on cd and recording it from analog is huge." is on Hydrogenaudio (TOS8). Also, I suspect that such sampling rates and bit depths are overkill in any situation, particularly when recording from vinyl.


I think recording 24 bit 88Khz is more than sufficient. I intend to rip at 24bit 48Khz as otherwise files sizes will become an issue
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analog scott
post Apr 25 2010, 09:36
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QUOTE (212121 @ Mar 16 2010, 00:36) *
Hi,

I want to convert my vinyl collection. My main priority is to have the tracks with a constant pitch! It's dance music and I will use the digital files for djing. I really need the beats to be aligned to a grid, just like they are if the record is playing at 0% pitch.

I already have a Technics 1210 MK5 and it's great for djing! It does a great job and the beats stay aligned. But I know there are turntables with better sound quality. Wonder if it's worth to buy a new turntable just to "rip" (I know it's not the right term) my vinyl collection. But as I said, it's absolutely necessary that the pitch stays constant. If it changes then it's really bad for what I do.

I hope you understand me

Thank you


If pitch stability and timing are your biggest concerns and you are using dance EPs I would *guess* your biggest obstacle would be eccentricies in your records. Nakamichi made very high quality turntables that had a unique function for centering off center records. These are very high quality rigs and are hard to find and fetch a premium on the used market. But given your priorities and your request for the best I'd have to say the Nakamichis may be it.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue33/tx1000.htm
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analog scott
post Apr 25 2010, 10:01
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QUOTE (dv1989 @ Apr 23 2010, 23:12) *
Disclaimer: I've no experience with vinyl beyond playing some LPs as a kid, and buying a few collectables in recent years. That said…

QUOTE (Irukandji syndrome @ Apr 23 2010, 20:00) *

QUOTE
“I have to say the Rega upgrades turn this humble arm into a real Giant killer. Gone is the rather grey, sterile sound of the cooking Rega. Instead, tonal colour is fresh, dynamics have great speed and impact, and the sound stage is huge.”
UPGRADE TO rega RB300 & RB250 - Hi-Fi World[/b]

“In short, the performance boost was striking. The most obvious improvement concerns scale. With the modified arm, the stereo image is much wider and deeper enabling each musician to be placed with accuracy within the sound stage. Focus is better too and improved bass depth increases solidity and weight. In fact, there isn’t an area in which the standard arm betters the modified. Dynamic swings are faster and tonal colours far more vivid, making the standard RB250 seem almost grey by comparison.
HI FI WORLD

Oh dear.

I assume that blind tests are more difficult to perform with vinyl equipment, but I think these reviewers would benefit from them, though perhaps not as much as from lessons in clear language and talking sense. If people must state what are essentially subjective opinions, can they not do so simply? "The bass was louder; I liked that." Nope; it's the usual ill-defined stuff like "tonal colour", "solidity", and the almost mythical "sound stage". It almost seems like both reviews are paraphrased from the same press release / audiophile dictionary.



Actually in this day and age blind comparisons between analog sources is really pretty easy. One can do hi rez copies and level match. Level matching may be a bit tricky and even "subjective" depending on how one chooses to do it. But IMO it makes complete sense to do any such comparisons blind.

I don't understand your objections to the terminology though. What is so mythical about "soundstage." It's just percieved space in which the music images when played back. "tonal color" is a pretty common term used in music. Solidity would be in reference to the imaging as well. The more convincing the aural illusion the more "solid" the imaging. You are refering to subjective reviews. Subjective reviews tend to be colorful and filled with hyperbole and are all ultimately personal opinions on the reviewers' perceptions. Part of the deal is reviewers get to express themselves their way. It's funny how some figurative language is accpetable and some is not. If I say something sounds "bright" no one seems to object but there would have been no increase in visible photons in the room.
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212121
post Apr 25 2010, 20:35
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I really don't know if it's worth to change the tonearm... and the risk of doing it wrong
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Irukandji syndro...
post Apr 25 2010, 23:42
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QUOTE (212121 @ Apr 25 2010, 19:35) *
I really don't know if it's worth to change the tonearm... and the risk of doing it wrong


You definately need someone who knows what there doing!! I found a guy recommended to me buy another guy who does mods, as he's done quite a few rega arms and repaired other peoples cowboy attempts.
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Apr 26 2010, 03:18
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QUOTE (Soap @ Apr 24 2010, 15:10) *
I'd just like to see the hardware that can use all 24 bits of recording bit depth, much less 32.


Then forget about LPs!

Even 16/44 is overkill for them.
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Apr 26 2010, 03:25
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QUOTE (dv1989 @ Apr 23 2010, 18:12) *
I assume that blind tests are more difficult to perform with vinyl equipment,


I was part of a group that did DBTs tests on vinyl playback equipment more than 20 years ago.

Legacy DBTs of vinyl gear

Since you are digitizing the LPs anyway, it is even easier to simply compare digital files made using different vinyl playback equipment being compared.

The biggest problem you are likely to encounter is that the files will have some relatively gross technical differences, that mayl make level-matching and time-synching non trival.

This post has been edited by Arnold B. Krueger: Apr 26 2010, 03:26
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Arnold B. Kruege...
post Apr 26 2010, 03:27
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QUOTE (analog scott @ Apr 25 2010, 05:01) *
Actually in this day and age blind comparisons between analog sources is really pretty easy. One can do hi rez copies and level match. Level matching may be a bit tricky and even "subjective" depending on how one chooses to do it. But IMO it makes complete sense to do any such comparisons blind.


Do tell!
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