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Advanced ABX, New cross-platform ABX application
googlebot
post May 1 2010, 21:39
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Advanced ABX

No currently available ABX application is able to switch without audible transients between tracks. The resulting clicks and pops can both increase the number of false positive and false negative results. The former happens, when the type of clicking correlates to the type of switch: A/A or A/B. False negatives become more probable, when loud clicks desensitize your hearing or keep you from turning up the volume to more revealing listening levels.

Advanced ABX provides transient-free switching!


Other exclusive features:
  • Impedes "fishing" for good results by design by enforcing a chosen number of rounds.
  • Customizable transition length to adapt to different material, for example in- and out-of-phase audio data.
  • Easily extendable transition mechanism: A very simple API allows scientists and developers to drop-in their own custom transition modules, for example to allow completely seamless switching.

Non-exclusive features:
  • Computation of statistical significance (p-value), also known as "probability of guessing".
  • Multi-threaded, low resource consumption.
  • Cross platform Java binary. Custom Windows and Mac executables.
  • Nice and simplistic GUI.
  • Textual output for easy publication of results.


Screenshot:



Notes:

I could only test on a Mac, yet, where it works flawlessly. Please report wether it also works on other platforms. Input is currently WAV only, and the files must have identical format and length. The program is basically able to work with all PCM integer bit depths up to 32 bit, but in practice one is limited by ones specific JRE's capabilities. Java on the Mac, for example, is limited to 16 bit. High sample rates should not be a problem anywhere. The back-end already supports looping, it just isn't implemented in the GUI code, yet.

The source code is going to be released later on. Please don't drown me in feature requests, actual code submits are much preferred.

Download:

Go here.

This post has been edited by googlebot: May 1 2010, 21:53
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Synthetic Soul
post May 2 2010, 19:00
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Initial Remarks:

1. "Transition Lenght"

2. Windows executable (XP SP3): Play button shows square icon as per stop button.


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soundberg
post May 2 2010, 19:25
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QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ May 2 2010, 20:00) *
2. Windows executable (XP SP3): Play button shows square icon as per stop button.

Same here on Windows XP. Also "play progress marker thing" stops not at the end but about one centimeter to the left of the end point (see screen shot). I can put the marker at the end by repeatedly pressing the play button. When end of file is reached I have to press Stop button to get the marker back to the start point. Hope my description is understandable. :-) Perhaps this is intended behavior.

Fade effect is clearly audible and delayed about one second from the clicking on any Track-button

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Kees de Visser
post May 3 2010, 09:01
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QUOTE (soundberg @ May 2 2010, 20:25) *
Fade effect is clearly audible and delayed about one second from the clicking on any Track-button
The fade effect sounds like a fade-out followed by a fade-in. Would it be possible to make a cross-fade, where the fades overlap 100% ?
I agree that the delay between mouse-click and audio switch is too long now.
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solive
post May 29 2010, 19:42
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QUOTE (Kees de Visser @ May 3 2010, 01:01) *
QUOTE (soundberg @ May 2 2010, 20:25) *
Fade effect is clearly audible and delayed about one second from the clicking on any Track-button
The fade effect sounds like a fade-out followed by a fade-in. Would it be possible to make a cross-fade, where the fades overlap 100% ?
I agree that the delay between mouse-click and audio switch is too long now.


I downloaded the Mac version and hear the delay/pause between switches. Also, why wouldn't you have a repeat loop function versus having to manually stop and restart the samples when they reach the end?


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googlebot
post May 30 2010, 00:31
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QUOTE (solive @ May 29 2010, 20:42) *
I downloaded the Mac version and hear the delay/pause between switches.


The delay you are hearing is adjustable in the field "transition length". It is a fade-out of length 'transition length / 2' followed by a fade into the other track of the same length. Shorter transitions are preferable when the material is in-phase. When you set the transition length to zero, there should not be any delay at all, but a seamless switch. Longer transitions make sense for absolute phase comparisons.

The current, fading transition module is just an example. More sophisticated (in theory completely inaudible) approaches have been discussed here recently. The code is very easy to extend regarding alternative transitions, but none of the discussion's participants has contributed anything in a while. So basically it seems that I could have spared the time, I have spent on this. smile.gif

QUOTE (solive @ May 29 2010, 20:42) *
Also, why wouldn't you have a repeat loop function versus having to manually stop and restart the samples when they reach the end?


It just isn't implemented in the GUI, yet. That's the sole reason. The back-end code already includes tested and working looping routines.

You'll probably understand that I have somewhat lost motivation. The response here was, to say at best, very moderate - even though this is HA. The code is a schoolbook example of maintainability and extensibility, very well suited for collaboration. Still there hasn't been any feedback in that direction. Since I din't start this for altruistic reasons but technical interest, the project will stand idle until it can attract at least some momentum.

I didn't really expect this. Maybe software based ABXing in the field of audio isn't just that important anymore. Or it is just more talked about than actually conducted. Or maybe correlated switching artifacts are just not considered that serious, so that simpler approaches embedded into applications with integrated converters as Foobar are just more convenient for most users.

This post has been edited by googlebot: May 30 2010, 00:32
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solive
post May 31 2010, 05:30
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QUOTE (googlebot @ May 29 2010, 16:31) *
I didn't really expect this. Maybe software based ABXing in the field of audio isn't just that important anymore. Or it is just more talked about than actually conducted. Or maybe correlated switching artifacts are just not considered that serious, so that simpler approaches embedded into applications with integrated converters as Foobar are just more convenient for most users.


Thanks for the reply. I understand your reasoning for not continuing development, if there is little interest. Perhaps you are right, that the demand to ABX lossy audio CODECS is diminishing as more people are using lossless audio.

I just returned from AES London where most of the focus seemed to be on issues related to of hearing/testing high resolution audio (e.g. 24/96) -- some panelists (e.g. Peter Craven) expressed the idea that current scientific testing (e.g. ABX) methods are too flawed to measure the benefits of 24/96. Here we go again smile.gif

See: - How Do We Evaluate High Resolution Formats for Digital Audio?

Cheers
Sean Olive
Audio Musings



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[url="http://seanolive.com"]Audio Musings[/url]
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krabapple
post Jun 1 2010, 19:17
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QUOTE (solive @ May 31 2010, 00:30) *
I just returned from AES London where most of the focus seemed to be on issues related to of hearing/testing high resolution audio (e.g. 24/96) -- some panelists (e.g. Peter Craven) expressed the idea that current scientific testing (e.g. ABX) methods are too flawed to measure the benefits of 24/96. Here we go again smile.gif

See: - How Do We Evaluate High Resolution Formats for Digital Audio?

Cheers
Sean Olive
Audio Musings



Ha, I see Milind Kunchur was on that one....too bad JJ wasn't there too. ;>

And Wieslaw Woszczyk is John Atkinson's go-to academic when JA wants to push the high-rez audibility meme.

Must've been an interesting session.

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Posts in this topic
- googlebot   Advanced ABX   May 1 2010, 21:39
- - 2E7AH   I'm not ABX fan, but downloaded file and tried...   May 2 2010, 03:23
- - lvqcl   BTW, foobar2000 approach (A B X Y tracks) makes A...   May 2 2010, 08:39
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (lvqcl @ May 2 2010, 09:39) BTW, fo...   May 2 2010, 11:37
- - googlebot   I have added the source code here. Developers, wh...   May 2 2010, 17:35
- - Synthetic Soul   Initial Remarks: 1. "Transition Lenght...   May 2 2010, 19:00
|- - soundberg   QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ May 2 2010, 20:00...   May 2 2010, 19:25
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (soundberg @ May 2 2010, 20:25) Als...   May 2 2010, 21:24
||- - 2thumbs   QUOTE (googlebot @ May 2 2010, 13:24) Abo...   May 3 2010, 00:27
|- - Kees de Visser   QUOTE (soundberg @ May 2 2010, 20:25) Fad...   May 3 2010, 09:01
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (Kees de Visser @ May 3 2010, 10:01...   May 3 2010, 11:44
|- - solive   QUOTE (Kees de Visser @ May 3 2010, 01:01...   May 29 2010, 19:42
|- - googlebot   QUOTE (solive @ May 29 2010, 20:42) I dow...   May 30 2010, 00:31
|- - solive   QUOTE (googlebot @ May 29 2010, 16:31) I ...   May 31 2010, 05:30
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (solive @ May 31 2010, 00:30) I jus...   Jun 1 2010, 19:17
|||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (krabapple @ Jun 1 2010, 14:17) QUO...   Jun 2 2010, 13:41
||- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (solive @ May 31 2010, 00:30) QUOTE...   Jun 2 2010, 12:00
|- - Kees de Visser   QUOTE (googlebot @ May 30 2010, 01:31) I ...   May 31 2010, 13:01
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (googlebot @ May 29 2010, 19:31) I ...   Jun 1 2010, 14:49
- - googlebot   Well, I could let the output buffers never fill ab...   May 2 2010, 23:13
- - lvqcl   WinXP with Eastern language support installed: pla...   May 3 2010, 08:48
- - googlebot   Does the new output buffer circumvention cause cli...   May 3 2010, 21:36
- - Sebastian Mares   The new binary you posted doesn't want to star...   May 3 2010, 23:00
- - googlebot   Fixed files are online.   May 4 2010, 00:37
- - solive   I applaud the development of a cross-platform ABX ...   May 29 2010, 19:49
- - Emon   Anyone who claims that ABX isn't scientific do...   May 31 2010, 17:34
- - [JAZ]   You ask why there is so little attention to this? ...   May 31 2010, 18:56
|- - googlebot   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ May 31 2010, 19:56...   Jun 1 2010, 15:19
|- - [JAZ]   QUOTE (googlebot @ Jun 1 2010, 16:19) Thi...   Jun 1 2010, 19:50
- - Alex B   googlebot, First I would like to thank you for yo...   Jun 1 2010, 20:29
- - 2E7AH   if this thread is going to spread in general ABX t...   Jun 2 2010, 00:37
- - C.R.Helmrich   Hi googlebot, just read this thread for the first...   Jun 3 2010, 11:13
- - bilbo   @googlebot It is going to be very hard to get peo...   Jun 3 2010, 14:51
- - googlebot   @bilbo I'm not interested in "How to boo...   Jun 3 2010, 16:52
- - krmathis   QUOTE (googlebot @ Jun 1 2010, 15:19) Cur...   Jun 8 2010, 17:51
- - Billytheonion   I have been using this on OS X http://emptymusic.c...   Jun 8 2010, 19:13


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