44.1 vs 88.2 ABX report at AES |
44.1 vs 88.2 ABX report at AES |
Jul 16 2010, 17:07
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![]() ReplayGain developer Group: Developer Posts: 4586 Joined: 5-November 01 From: Yorkshire, UK Member No.: 409 |
Here:
http://www.aes.org/events/128/papers/?ID=2252 QUOTE P18-6 Sampling Rate Discrimination: 44.1 kHz vs. 88.2 kHz—Amandine Pras, Catherine Guastavino, McGill University - Montreal, Quebec, Canada It is currently common practice for sound engineers to record digital music using high-resolution formats, and then down sample the files to 44.1 kHz for commercial release. This study aims at investigating whether listeners can perceive differences between musical files recorded at 44.1 kHz and 88.2 kHz with the same analog chain and type of AD-converter. Sixteen expert listeners were asked to compare 3 versions (44.1 kHz, 88.2 kHz, and the 88.2 kHz version down-sampled to 44.1 kHz) of 5 musical excerpts in a blind ABX task. Overall, participants were able to discriminate between files recorded at 88.2 kHz and their 44.1 kHz down-sampled version. Furthermore, for the orchestral excerpt, they were able to discriminate between files recorded at 88.2 kHz and files recorded at 44.1 kHz. Convention Paper 8101 Was anyone at the presentation? Has anyone bought the paper? Cheers, David. |
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Jul 16 2010, 18:18
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 478 Joined: 22-November 01 From: United Kingdom Member No.: 519 |
Interesting. The fact that the discrimination was mostly limited to the downsampled version would seem to indicate that any audibility issues are with the downsampling procedure rather than the sampling rate itself. There is, however, the case of the orchestral music...
Searching for the paper I also found that the same authors have published a test comparing CD-quality vs MP3: QUOTE (http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=15074) Subjective Evaluation of MP3 Compression for Different Musical Genres Mp3 compression is commonly used to reduce the size of digital music files but introduces a number of potentially audible artifacts, especially at low bitrates. We investigated whether listeners prefer CD quality to mp3 files at various bitrates (96 kb/s to 320 kb/s), and whether this preference is affected by musical genre. Thirteen trained listeners completed an A/B comparison task judging CD quality and compressed files. Listeners significantly preferred CD quality to mp3 files up to 192 kb/s for all musical genres. In addition, we observed a significant effect of expertise (sound engineers vs. musicians) and musical genres (electric v.s acoustic music). Again, frustratingly little information given about the details of the test... |
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2Bdecided 44.1 vs 88.2 ABX report at AES Jul 16 2010, 17:07
C.R.Helmrich http://coltrane.music.mcgill.ca/MAQ/experiments co... Jul 16 2010, 19:33
Dologan QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Jul 16 2010, 19:33)... Jul 16 2010, 20:30
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 16 2010, 12:07) He... Jul 16 2010, 19:45
pbelkner QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 16 2010, 20... Jul 16 2010, 20:01

Dologan QUOTE (pbelkner @ Jul 16 2010, 20:01) QUO... Jul 16 2010, 20:03

pbelkner QUOTE (Dologan @ Jul 16 2010, 21:03) but ... Jul 16 2010, 20:19

benski Yes, exactly. It is cheaper to design a 192kHz DA... Jul 16 2010, 20:47

Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Dologan @ Jul 16 2010, 15:03) QUOT... Jul 16 2010, 23:21
C.R.Helmrich QUOTE Overall, participants were able to discrimin... Jul 16 2010, 20:25
pbelkner QUOTE (C.R.Helmrich @ Jul 16 2010, 21:25)... Jul 16 2010, 20:59
krabapple 1) I suggest this thread be focused on the 44.1 v... Jul 16 2010, 22:23
WernerO QUOTE (krabapple @ Jul 16 2010, 23:23) Th... Aug 11 2010, 13:51
mzil QUOTE (krabapple @ Jul 16 2010, 17:23) 2)... Jul 22 2012, 02:47
googlebot Why upsample? 99.9% of all DACs oversample anyway.... Jul 16 2010, 22:25
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (googlebot @ Jul 16 2010, 17:25) Wh... Jul 16 2010, 23:47
benski QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 16 2010, 18... Jul 17 2010, 03:12

Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (benski @ Jul 16 2010, 22:12) QUOTE... Jul 17 2010, 06:39

greynol QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 16 2010, 22... Jul 17 2010, 18:33

Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 17 2010, 13:33) QUOT... Jul 17 2010, 20:35
2Bdecided QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 16 2010, 23... Jul 21 2010, 13:22
Alex B I think the least incorrect way to compare 88.2 KH... Jul 16 2010, 22:33
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Alex B @ Jul 16 2010, 17:33) I thi... Jul 16 2010, 23:30
Dologan QUOTE (Alex B @ Jul 16 2010, 22:33) I thi... Jul 16 2010, 23:40
AndyH-ha It seems that what I wrote in the first part of my... Jul 17 2010, 09:55
googlebot AndyH-ha, that might be on purpose. For two lowpas... Jul 17 2010, 10:49
googlebot I think the 88.2 vs. downsampled 44.1 test had at ... Jul 17 2010, 16:39
greynol QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 17 2010, 12... Jul 17 2010, 20:48
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 17 2010, 15:48) QUOT... Jul 17 2010, 23:04
AndyH-ha I also may not know what I'm talking about, bu... Jul 17 2010, 22:02
greynol The reason for oversampling in old CD players is a... Jul 17 2010, 22:13
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 17 2010, 17:13) The ... Jul 17 2010, 23:14
greynol I'm taking issue with what I thought was a bla... Jul 17 2010, 23:27
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 17 2010, 18:27) I... Jul 18 2010, 01:52
greynol QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 17 2010, 17... Jul 19 2010, 00:56
amandinepras Thanks all for your interest in our paper,
I recei... Jul 19 2010, 00:52
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (amandinepras @ Jul 18 2010, 19:52)... Jul 19 2010, 03:35
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (amandinepras @ Jul 18 2010, 19:52)... Jul 19 2010, 11:35

2Bdecided QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 19 2010, 11... Jul 21 2010, 13:20

Kees de Visser QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 21 2010, 14:20) QU... Jul 23 2010, 09:26
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (amandinepras @ Jul 18 2010, 19:52)... Jul 19 2010, 11:48

googlebot QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 19 2010, 12... Jul 19 2010, 12:19


Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (googlebot @ Jul 19 2010, 07:19) QU... Jul 19 2010, 14:33

krabapple QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 19 2010, 06... Jul 19 2010, 14:08
Notat QUOTE (amandinepras @ Jul 18 2010, 17:52)... Jul 21 2010, 04:08
hciman77 QUOTE (amandinepras @ Jul 18 2010, 19:52)... Jul 28 2010, 15:18
Pio2001 Thanks for joining the discussion, Amandine.
Your... Jul 19 2010, 12:31
2Bdecided QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jul 19 2010, 12:31) I se... Jul 21 2010, 13:13
googlebot The study shows at least the intent of objectivity... Jul 19 2010, 16:28
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (googlebot @ Jul 19 2010, 11:28) [l... Jul 19 2010, 19:11
Soap QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 19 2010, 14... Jul 19 2010, 20:24
Soap QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 19 2010, 14... Jul 19 2010, 23:07
Juha QUOTE Doesn't anybody else see a problem with ... Jul 19 2010, 19:25
googlebot The manufacturer's specs for the FF 800. Unwei... Jul 19 2010, 20:22
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (googlebot @ Jul 19 2010, 15:22) Th... Jul 19 2010, 21:26
Cavaille Forgive me to interrupt this discussion about the ... Jul 20 2010, 08:40
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Cavaille @ Jul 20 2010, 03:40) Arn... Jul 20 2010, 13:13
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 20 2010, 08... Jul 20 2010, 19:30

Pio2001 QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 20 2010, 20... Jul 20 2010, 22:36


Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jul 20 2010, 17:36) QUOT... Jul 20 2010, 23:57

C.R.Helmrich QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 20 2010, 20... Jul 20 2010, 22:53
2Bdecided QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 20 2010, 13... Jul 21 2010, 13:25
WernerO QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 20 2010, 14... Aug 2 2010, 08:19
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (WernerO @ Aug 2 2010, 03:19) QUOTE... Aug 2 2010, 11:56
Pio2001 The strange thing is that there are ABX results wi... Jul 21 2010, 12:16
hciman77 QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jul 21 2010, 07:16) The ... Jul 27 2010, 22:56
googlebot The fact, that the study's authors have regist... Jul 23 2010, 10:55
Pio2001 QUOTE (googlebot @ Jul 23 2010, 11:55) co... Jul 24 2010, 13:58
krabapple Sheesh, it's only been four days. They may ac... Jul 23 2010, 19:20
googlebot In dubio pro reo is generally a good principle. Bu... Jul 26 2010, 19:43
hciman77 QUOTE (googlebot @ Jul 26 2010, 14:43) In... Jul 26 2010, 21:05
hciman77 I read the full paper and I think there may be som... Jul 26 2010, 19:48
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (hciman77 @ Jul 26 2010, 14:48) I r... Jul 27 2010, 13:16

2Bdecided QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 27 2010, 13... Jul 27 2010, 22:45
Pio2001 QUOTE (hciman77 @ Jul 26 2010, 20:48) Thi... Jul 28 2010, 11:39
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Jul 28 2010, 06:39) QUOT... Jul 28 2010, 13:52
AndyH-ha QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Jul 28 2010, 04... Jul 28 2010, 22:42
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 28 2010, 17:42... Jul 29 2010, 13:04
2Bdecided QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 28 2010, 22:42... Jul 29 2010, 22:11
SebastianG QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 29 2010, 22:11) bu... Jul 30 2010, 09:55
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 29 2010, 17:11) I ... Jul 30 2010, 12:26
lvqcl Audition 1.5: 44.1 -> 96 kHz resampling, Qualit... Jul 30 2010, 11:42
C.R.Helmrich I finally found time to read the entire paper. It... Aug 9 2010, 21:41
2Bdecided I think before you pull out one positive result an... Aug 9 2010, 22:44
C.R.Helmrich QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Aug 9 2010, 23:44) I t... Aug 10 2010, 01:37
Pio2001 I finaly got the article. Actually, they say somet... Aug 9 2010, 23:33
Pio2001 The unknown thing is the origin of the p values. I... Aug 10 2010, 12:33
lrossouw Did they test for difference (Check if you can tel... Sep 8 2010, 09:39![]() ![]() |
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