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FLAC and WAV Lossless
SonicBooom!
post Feb 23 2011, 10:56
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I'm just curious, I know FLAC and WAV Lossless are indeed "lossless", the only difference is that FLAC has some compression. But anyway, I ripped a same song using EAC in FLAC (compression lv. 5) and WAV Lossless. The FLAC file is 1023kbps while the WAV file is 1411kbps. Again, I know they're both lossless but I wonder if their bitrates has something to do with their quality.


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Brent
post Feb 23 2011, 11:15
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Like you said, the only difference is compression, which results in a lower (avarage) bitrate. That's how compression works.
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XQYZ
post Feb 23 2011, 11:40
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FLAC's like a zip file. You put in say 10 MB, the file will just be 3MB maybe, but there's still the data of the 10MB in it.
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DonP
post Feb 23 2011, 13:52
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QUOTE (SonicBooom! @ Feb 23 2011, 04:56) *
. Again, I know they're both lossless but I wonder if their bitrates has something to do with their quality.


I'd say yes, in the sense that a source that compressed a LOT (say 99%) or very little (say 1%) would be either incredibly sparse or incredibly noisy in terms of content.

Your example of 27% is outside the range I normally get: 50% +/- 10

You could have just encoded your wav file to flac without reripping.

This post has been edited by DonP: Feb 23 2011, 13:53
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Roseval
post Feb 23 2011, 15:42
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A little experiment
A track from a CD ripped to WAV= 16 bits * 2 channels * 44100 Hz= 1411200 Bits/s
If you see something else it is obvious a WAV not containing Redbook (CD) audio.

Take good converter softwarelike dbPoweramp and convert this WAV to FLAC e.g. compression 5 and 8
Compression 8 eats a bit more CPU because more compression so when you play it you should see a slightly lower bitrate than in case of compression 5
Take 2 different tracks and convert them both to FLAC using the same compression e.g. 5.
You will see different bit rates because as it is lossless compression some music can be compressed more than other. If you have a track where all frequencies are there and equally loud, you won’t have any compression at all.

Take the same track you ripped to FLAC and convert it to MP3 e.g. 256 kbs CBR.
On playback you will see 256.

Take both the FLAC and the MP3 and convert them back to WAV.
During playback you will see 1411 KBs. Logical this WAV contains 16*2*44100.

Load the WAV converted from FLAC into an audio editor together with the original WAV.
Time align if needed and subtract the tracks. You will end up with zeros only as the two tracks are bit identical (lossless=lossless)
Load the WAV converted from MP3 into an audio editor together with the original WAV.
Time align (needed due to the MP3) and subtract the tracks. You will end up with a non zero track as what is lost in the compression to MP3 cannot recovered. (lossy=lost forever)


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Zarggg
post Feb 24 2011, 21:26
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In the case of lossless compression, bitrate is not an indicator of quality, as no psychoacoustic "tricks" have been applied to make the auto sound the same (or similar) with less information.
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SonicBooom!
post Feb 27 2011, 08:36
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QUOTE (Roseval @ Feb 23 2011, 22:42) *
Load the WAV converted from FLAC into an audio editor together with the original WAV.
Time align if needed and subtract the tracks. You will end up with zeros only as the two tracks are bit identical (lossless=lossless)
Load the WAV converted from MP3 into an audio editor together with the original WAV.


May I ask how is this done? I use Audacity.


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db1989
post Feb 27 2011, 17:39
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To subtract tracks, invert one and then summate (=mix) it with the other.
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Apesbrain
post Feb 27 2011, 17:52
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QUOTE (SonicBooom! @ Feb 27 2011, 02:36) *
QUOTE (Roseval @ Feb 23 2011, 22:42) *
Load the WAV converted from FLAC into an audio editor together with the original WAV.
Time align if needed and subtract the tracks. You will end up with zeros only as the two tracks are bit identical (lossless=lossless)
Load the WAV converted from MP3 into an audio editor together with the original WAV.

May I ask how is this done? I use Audacity.

You can also load both files into foobar2000 and use its optional "binary compare" component:

http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_bitcompare

Will tell you if the two files are identical when decoded.
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SonicBooom!
post Feb 28 2011, 11:54
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QUOTE (Apesbrain @ Feb 28 2011, 00:52) *
QUOTE (SonicBooom! @ Feb 27 2011, 02:36) *
QUOTE (Roseval @ Feb 23 2011, 22:42) *
Load the WAV converted from FLAC into an audio editor together with the original WAV.
Time align if needed and subtract the tracks. You will end up with zeros only as the two tracks are bit identical (lossless=lossless)
Load the WAV converted from MP3 into an audio editor together with the original WAV.

May I ask how is this done? I use Audacity.

You can also load both files into foobar2000 and use its optional "binary compare" component:

http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_bitcompare

Will tell you if the two files are identical when decoded.


Thanks! I'm using it now smile.gif


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