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is Ogg Vorbis the best Lossy encoder? (what is?)
snadge
post Jun 8 2011, 04:01
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ive been trying to find out which encoder produces the best audio quality at similar bitrates (say 128k) to other lossy encoders - ive seen a couple of reviews and tests and they seem to point to Ogg Vorbis as being the better encoder - I encoded a WAV file to MP3, AAC, WMA & Vorbis all at 128k CBR and while it was hard to tell any difference the Ogg Vorbis was pumping out higher frequencies at 20Khz + and the rest were up to 18Khz (according to spectrum on Foobar2000)

the only gripe is during conversion Ogg Vorbis was the only one that didnt have the Tag info from the WAV file.

can anyone lead me to more listening test results and the likes so i can ascertain for myself? - i would like others views on "best lossy codec" etc

I read on Wikipedia that AAC at 128k is supposedly Transparent to the lossless source according to listening tests by M-PEG for ITU or something? - I was hoping to adopt AAC as my default rip codec as I have an iPod and MP3 player that plays AAC - but Iam in the market for a new media-player so all this is irrelevant as I can buy something to suite.

thanks in advance for replies smile.gif

please be gentle...im a noob at all this,

This post has been edited by snadge: Jun 8 2011, 04:17


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terhardp
post Jun 8 2011, 07:10
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I'm saying this from my personal view, not based on scientific evidence.

I was in the similar dilemma recently. I was trying to decide which codec to use for 128 kbps VBR encoding for my iPod Nano 2G. Before I've discovered Rockbox, the obvious choice would be AAC 128 kbps VBR, even though I've read and seen some tests that show LAME V5 is not very far away in that range. But then I've installed Rockbox, which has stable version for my iPod now. Rockbox is great, it has numerious fancy features comparing to the original Apple firmware, but I thought it makes no much practical sense of using it if not using some format that the official FW doesn't support. So, after all the years of using FLAC, LAME and AAC exclusively, I've finally looked at OGG. I'm using the latest version of AoTuV, as I've read that this is optimized at lower bitrates. I've even did couple of ABX tests using the IEM's I'm using mostly with my Nano: Head-Direct RE0. Unlike most people, I treat my iPod differently: I don't listen it in noisy situations; quite the opposite. I'm using it to quickly get to my favourite albums, primarily for inspirational (as a musician and composer) as well as relaxation purposes. So, I'm concerned about transparency. I'm planning to do more testing in the future, but for now, I must say that I'm extremely happy how Vorbis performs at relatively low bitrates (Q4). I also think that the quality / filesize ratio is best for my purpose, given the somewhat limited space (8 GB). No, I'm certainly not a "hamster" when it comes to music, but I still have quite a lot of albums that I like to keep on handy.

The only thing about using Vorbis on my Rockboxed iPod I'm a bit sceptical about is the running time. According to what I've read on Rockbox's site and forums, OGG is rather memory intensive. But the running tests they've made are rather old now, and since both Rockbox and Vorbis are developing, I'm guessing that this isn't that big issue nowdays.

This post has been edited by terhardp: Jun 8 2011, 07:18
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snadge
post Jun 8 2011, 17:32
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QUOTE (terhardp @ Jun 8 2011, 07:10) *
I'm saying this from my personal view, not based on scientific evidence.

I was in the similar dilemma recently. I was trying to decide which codec to use for 128 kbps VBR encoding for my iPod Nano 2G. Before I've discovered Rockbox, the obvious choice would be AAC 128 kbps VBR, even though I've read and seen some tests that show LAME V5 is not very far away in that range. But then I've installed Rockbox, which has stable version for my iPod now. Rockbox is great, it has numerious fancy features comparing to the original Apple firmware, but I thought it makes no much practical sense of using it if not using some format that the official FW doesn't support. So, after all the years of using FLAC, LAME and AAC exclusively, I've finally looked at OGG. I'm using the latest version of AoTuV, as I've read that this is optimized at lower bitrates. I've even did couple of ABX tests using the IEM's I'm using mostly with my Nano: Head-Direct RE0. Unlike most people, I treat my iPod differently: I don't listen it in noisy situations; quite the opposite. I'm using it to quickly get to my favourite albums, primarily for inspirational (as a musician and composer) as well as relaxation purposes. So, I'm concerned about transparency. I'm planning to do more testing in the future, but for now, I must say that I'm extremely happy how Vorbis performs at relatively low bitrates (Q4). I also think that the quality / filesize ratio is best for my purpose, given the somewhat limited space (8 GB). No, I'm certainly not a "hamster" when it comes to music, but I still have quite a lot of albums that I like to keep on handy.

The only thing about using Vorbis on my Rockboxed iPod I'm a bit sceptical about is the running time. According to what I've read on Rockbox's site and forums, OGG is rather memory intensive. But the running tests they've made are rather old now, and since both Rockbox and Vorbis are developing, I'm guessing that this isn't that big issue nowdays.


many thanks for that reply

I too was leaning towards OGG but then read about MPC... I dont know of any 'flavours' of encoders that are preferred...perhaps you can help? im using dbPowerAmp with lastest codecs installed - thing is ive run a short listening test and at 128k it sounds transparent (as does the 128k AAC Nero enc) but i noticed on Foobar spectrum eq analyser that when playing the OGG version there are frequencies being played that arent in the original.. I played the FLAC, AAC and OGG (AAC and OGG ripped from the FLAC in dbPowerAmp) and FLAC and AAC play 17Khz+ but OGG is playing frequencies 20Khz+ ...?? is this bad or good? I see some listening test reviewers saying ogg gives off a his and ive noticed in spectrum analysers in some tests that it has the best high end reproduction of the popular codecs... It must be related...the hiss people report, the added high end on my EQ etc..

can you advise of better 'flavour' encoders? whats difference?

I too have iPod Nano 4G 16Gb - I will have too look into this Rockbox thing

thanks again

This post has been edited by snadge: Jun 8 2011, 17:34


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saratoga
post Jun 8 2011, 18:52
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QUOTE (snadge @ Jun 8 2011, 12:32) *
I played the FLAC, AAC and OGG (AAC and OGG ripped from the FLAC in dbPowerAmp) and FLAC and AAC play 17Khz+ but OGG is playing frequencies 20Khz+ ...?? is this bad or good?


Its neither.

QUOTE (snadge @ Jun 8 2011, 12:32) *
I see some listening test reviewers saying ogg gives off a his and ive noticed in spectrum analysers in some tests that it has the best high end reproduction of the popular codecs...


spectrum analyser results are meaningless. Don't waste your time.

QUOTE (snadge @ Jun 8 2011, 12:32) *
I too have iPod Nano 4G 16Gb - I will have too look into this Rockbox thing


Its a little late to ask about Vorbis then. Unless you're selling that player you're going to be using MP3 or AAC.
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Posts in this topic
- snadge   is Ogg Vorbis the best Lossy encoder? (what is?)   Jun 8 2011, 04:01
- - SonicBooom!   I hope I'll not get bashed for I am not truly ...   Jun 8 2011, 04:36
- - snadge   thanks for the info im glad you told me about re...   Jun 8 2011, 04:58
- - terhardp   I'm saying this from my personal view, not bas...   Jun 8 2011, 07:10
|- - snadge   QUOTE (terhardp @ Jun 8 2011, 07:10) I...   Jun 8 2011, 17:32
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (snadge @ Jun 8 2011, 12:32) I play...   Jun 8 2011, 18:52
|- - snadge   QUOTE (saratoga @ Jun 8 2011, 17:52) QUOT...   Jun 9 2011, 14:03
|- - DonP   QUOTE (snadge @ Jun 9 2011, 08:03) [ he i...   Jun 9 2011, 15:26
- - googlebot   What is the best car?   Jun 8 2011, 07:43
|- - Lorem Ipsum   The Batmobile.   Jun 8 2011, 08:07
|- - Cron   QUOTE (googlebot @ Jun 8 2011, 08:43) Wha...   Jun 8 2011, 08:10
- - smok3   if planing to rockbox, i would check battery eatin...   Jun 8 2011, 19:15
- - C.R.Helmrich   @ snadge: regarding quality, have a look at http:/...   Jun 8 2011, 19:45
- - Xanikseo   Regarding that link, it's only really useful f...   Jun 8 2011, 22:03
|- - Canar   QUOTE (Xanikseo @ Jun 8 2011, 14:03) Howe...   Jun 8 2011, 22:56
- - snadge   thanks for all the great replies... so, do you th...   Jun 9 2011, 13:43
- - lvqcl   Dynamics? What is it?   Jun 9 2011, 13:49
|- - snadge   QUOTE (lvqcl @ Jun 9 2011, 12:49) Dynamic...   Jun 9 2011, 13:56
|- - pdq   QUOTE (snadge @ Jun 9 2011, 08:56) QUOTE ...   Jun 9 2011, 14:25
- - Xanikseo   QUOTE (pdq @ Jun 9 2011, 14:25) QUOTE (sn...   Jun 10 2011, 01:00
|- - dv1989   QUOTE (Xanikseo @ Jun 10 2011, 01:00) QUO...   Jun 10 2011, 01:30
- - smok3   QUOTE (DonP @ Jun 9 2011, 16:26) QUOTE (s...   Jun 10 2011, 07:10
|- - DonP   QUOTE (smok3 @ Jun 10 2011, 01:10) QUOTE ...   Jun 10 2011, 12:44
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (smok3 @ Jun 10 2011, 02:10) QUOTE ...   Jun 10 2011, 15:32
- - smok3   saratoga, andless is working with my old musepack ...   Jun 12 2011, 11:02
- - Xanikseo   QUOTE (dv1989 @ Jun 10 2011, 01:30) Quali...   Jun 12 2011, 14:07
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Xanikseo @ Jun 12 2011, 09:07) Whe...   Jun 12 2011, 18:10
- - dv1989   While your post is considered and doesn’t look par...   Jun 12 2011, 17:16
- - Xanikseo   I do accept that vbr is necessary, music does cons...   Jun 12 2011, 20:08
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Xanikseo @ Jun 12 2011, 15:08) Whe...   Jun 12 2011, 21:09
- - Xanikseo   I meant what kind of signal would represent a prob...   Jun 13 2011, 00:09
- - [JAZ]   @Xanikseo: While everything is representable by se...   Jun 13 2011, 09:46
|- - saratoga   QUOTE ([JAZ] @ Jun 13 2011, 04:46...   Jun 13 2011, 17:14
- - Xanikseo   I never said that you should use a square waves as...   Jun 15 2011, 23:20
- - K-Meleon   @OP: This test shows that 96 kbps QuickTime AAC is...   Jun 16 2011, 07:25
- - B7k   QUOTE (K-Meleon @ Jun 16 2011, 02:25...   Jun 27 2011, 06:47


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