CD audio is not good enough, CD Standard is bad quality |
CD audio is not good enough, CD Standard is bad quality |
May 1 2003, 04:29
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#1
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 107 Joined: 7-April 03 From: Sacramento, CA Member No.: 5871 |
Sound quality is a complex subject, and one that has been thrashed
out elsewhere time after time. Nonetheless I'll give it a bit of a spin here, without getting all technical, in order to justify why I think CD audio is not good enough. When I complain about CD sound I am not doing so as some sort of retrograde vinyl lover who can't change with the times. :-) I am simply saying that the sound of the CD I am listening to has audible problems and does not match what I expect the creators wanted. This can be measured by how closely the CD replicates the master. Of course in most cases I don't get to hear the master, so much is guesswork. However, as a trained audio engineer I have *some* idea of what is expected and can certainly compare CDs to the masters I produce. CDs improved on vinyl in many ways, notably in reduced noise floor, phase artifacts, and crosstalk; ease of handling; and accurate handling of low frequency stereo information. But CDs are inferior to vinyl in frequency response and degradation characteristics. If a CD gets a scratch you hear unlistenable white noise; if a record gets a scratch you hear a DJ. ;-) Going further, some may "prefer" the sound of vinyl precisely because of the distortions it introduces. These include rounded signal peaks and second-order harmonics, as well as the aforementioned phase issues. All of these introduce a "warm" sound that is palatable to many. Whether I like that sound or not, I prefer to hear what the artist intended. If they wanted harmonics they could have used a tube. And so on. A bit more is in order about error correction. Most errors are corrected by CD players, but this can produce tiny glitches of noise that most people do not notice. I notice them. It's not that I have better ears; once I point them out you can hear them as well. Of course, the better the music reproduction system the more noticable these are. (Though contrary to this, the better the CD player error correction, the less you'll hear.) For most people with crappy stereos it's not an issue. I do not think that there is anything inherently wrong with digital sound encoding, only that the 44.1KHz sampling rate and 16 bits per sample are not good enough. Currently, studios use 96KHz and 24 (or 32) bits throughout the recording chain process, and must reduce this down to consumer standards for replication. There's probably a good reason why those people most highly trained in listening don't think CD quality is good enough for recording. It's simply because their ears tell them so. You may be interested to know that the current CD standard was a matter of much compromise between the American, European, and Japanese manufacturers. I can remember reading some of the research articles at the time (I was in university). The Japanese insisted that 100KHz and 24-bit (if memory serves on the exact numbers) were required for accurate reproduction. But the others argued that no-one would hear the difference and it would reduce cost and time to market if the lower standard was adopted. And so, unfortunately, it was. Another big problem with many CDs is the terrible job of mastering. Back in vinyl days you really had to know what you were doing to adjust the master tape to the deficiencies of the medium. There were relatively few mastering engineers, but they knew their job. Today almost anyone thinks they can master, and so they do... badly. So the problems with CD can be summarised as: insufficient frequency response, insufficient resolution, poor mastering, nasty error characteritics, and cases that break all the time. ;-) MP3s inherit all of these except the bit about the cases. -- robin |
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May 1 2003, 12:44
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#2
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Group: Members Posts: 148 Joined: 29-September 01 Member No.: 70 |
The CD standard is often taking an unfair amount of criticism that in my opinion should be aimed at the manufacturers of D/A converters and CD players. The format is indeed "old", but even after over two decades it's only very rarely properly implemented. Playback equipment is generally very poorly designed (recording equipment to, for that matter) and issues like jitter have hardly been dealt with at all, until very recently. There's an awful lot of "bad digital" out there, and that's not going to change just by upping the sampling frequency or increasing the number of bits. That's just marketing. (For an idea of what "good digital" can be, cough up $800 and get yourself a Benchmark DAC1.) Mastering, as several of you brought up, is of course also a key issue. Bad mastering will make things sound like crap regardless of format. My stance is that any shortcomings of the CD standard remains the least of the problems anyone involved is facing.
I find it very typical of our times that the Red Book format is now being deemed obsolete and insufficient, before it's even fully realized. Why do it right when you can do it twice and earn billions and billions on selling both hardware and software? The music industry obviosuly think this is a great idea; it's an excellent opportunity to sell us music they've already earned billions on, for the fourth or fifth time. Soon there'll be nothing but remastered old recordings out there. Also, I think it's best in these discussions to separate the production side of audio from the production/distribution side. It's common that people involved in making recordings apply their experiences to the end user, but there's a lot that doesn't apply. Recording in higher resolution may be a very good idea considering you're stacking and processing up to perhaps a hundred tracks, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Joe Consumer (or even Steve Audiophile) needs it for playback. uosdwis |
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Joseph CD audio is not good enough May 1 2003, 04:29
bryant You're absolutely right!! Those CD cas... May 1 2003, 04:48
boojum Joseph, in general I agree with your post. But th... May 1 2003, 04:57
mrosscook Joseph,
Your post argues that a lot of current CD... May 1 2003, 05:16
paranoos I have to agree completely with your statement abo... May 1 2003, 05:18
floyd QUOTE (Joseph @ Apr 30 2003 - 09:29 PM)Curren... May 1 2003, 05:43
Delirium I'm pretty sure you're, frankly, incorrect... May 1 2003, 06:14
sjk QUOTE (paranoos @ Apr 30 2003 - 08:18 PM)I ha... May 1 2003, 06:34
AstralStorm QUOTE (Delirium @ May 1 2003 - 07:14 AM)To co... May 1 2003, 07:32
2Bdecided Whilst I'm a fan of higher sample rates (in th... May 1 2003, 10:51
dev0 I agree with Paranoos here completely. If masterin... May 1 2003, 11:01
DonP I believe the 16/44 rates are the numbers that fel... May 1 2003, 14:32
Joseph paranoos wrote:
> I have to agree completely w... May 1 2003, 16:32
DigitalMan QUOTE (Joseph @ May 1 2003 - 07:32 AM)paranoo... May 1 2003, 18:06
KikeG Well, all there issues have been discussed here fr... May 1 2003, 20:28
Pio2001 Joseph wrote :
QUOTE CDs are inferior to
vinyl in... May 1 2003, 21:22
buzzy One of the great things about HA is that discussio... May 1 2003, 22:33
Uosdwis R. Dewoh QUOTE (Joseph @ May 1 2003 - 04:32 PM)> Al... May 1 2003, 22:41
KikeG QUOTE (Pio2001 @ May 1 2003 - 09:22 PM)What... May 2 2003, 00:21
Pio2001 About audible clicks, I must say that many recordi... May 2 2003, 01:12
DonP QUOTE (Pio2001 @ May 1 2003 - 03:22 PM)Actual... May 2 2003, 01:17
Joseph DigitalMan wrote
> 1) Nyquist does not require... May 2 2003, 06:54
Miles QUOTE (Joseph @ May 1 2003 - 05:29 AM)... you... May 2 2003, 08:21
2Bdecided QUOTE (Pio2001 @ May 1 2003 - 08:22 PM)2bdeci... May 2 2003, 10:02
2Bdecided QUOTE (Joseph @ May 2 2003 - 05:54 AM)Nyquist... May 2 2003, 10:34
Pio2001 QUOTE (Joseph @ May 2 2003 - 08:54 AM)It depe... May 2 2003, 11:41
mrosscook Joseph, you end your last post by saying,
QUOTE B... May 2 2003, 16:18
DonP QUOTE (Pio2001 @ May 2 2003 - 05:41 AM)That... May 2 2003, 16:43
bryant QUOTE (mrosscook @ May 2 2003 - 07:18 AM)Base... May 2 2003, 18:34
DigitalMan QUOTE (Joseph @ May 1 2003 - 09:54 PM)Joseph ... May 2 2003, 18:35
KikeG QUOTE (Joseph @ May 2 2003 - 06:54 AM)Nyquist... May 2 2003, 18:58![]() ![]() |
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