Normalize Vs Volume increase |
Normalize Vs Volume increase |
Jun 29 2011, 23:08
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#1
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Group: Members Posts: 111 Joined: 7-May 07 Member No.: 43262 |
I'm having trouble figuring out which of the two is better for me to create a vinyl recording at the highest volume without clipping.
I capture a record via my preamp into Audacity, and I get what seem to be relatively low levels even though I make sure the levels are right when I record (Peak: -6.4db, RMS -24.6db). Am I doing something wrong? Or are those levels right? These recordings don't seem as loud as mastered CDs. Anyway, to get the most accurate sound possible, should I use normalize or just increase the volume? If normalizing makes everything sound the same at a peak level, doesn't that completely screw with the dynamic range of the music? Thanks! |
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Jun 30 2011, 00:43
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#2
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Group: Members Posts: 2134 Joined: 24-August 07 From: Silicon Valley Member No.: 46454 |
Audacity's Amplify effect has an option of setting the peaks to 0dB, which is the same as normalizing.*
IIRC, Audacity's Normalize, adjusts both channels separately which can upset the left-right balance. On the Audacity forum, they seem to recommend Amplify . Normalizing or adjusting the volume doesn't affect the dynamics, unless you push it into clipping. With clipping, you are getting a nasty kind of dynamic compression where the average volume is increased without increasing the peaks (plus you're getting distortion). If you've got some loud "clicks" & "pops", these defects may represent the loudest peaks. So, you'll want to normalize after de-clicking. QUOTE (Peak: -6.4db, RMS -24.6db). Am I doing something wrong? Or are those levels right? That's about right (before normalizing). You can go a little higher, but if the peaks "try" to go over 0dB, the analog-to-digital converter will clip (distort). The ratio** of RMS to peak is determined by the dynamics of the music & recording. I usually check the peak level after recording, and if it's at 0dB, I assume it's clipped, and I re-record at a lower level. (I use a different program, but I believe Audacity shows clipping as red in the waveform.) These recordings don't seem as loud as mastered CDs. Most modern popular CDs are highly (dynamically) compressed to make them constantly loud (see Loudness War). Compression is a way of increasing the average/RMS level without increasing or clipping the peaks. This is why some people prefer older vinyl over the remastered & over-compressed CD version. Audacity has a compressor, so you can get a "louder" or "more modern" sound if you wish. Or if you want it listen louder, you can crank-up the playback-volume a bit and enjoy the dynamics! * You can actually "normalize" to other peak values, such as -1dB, but setting the peak(s) to the "digital maximum" of 0dB is the most common.) ** Decibels are logarithms. So the difference in dB is a ratio, and it stays constant when you amplify (multiply) or attenuate (divide). i.e. If you boost the peaks from -6dB to 0dB, the RMS level will also be boosted by 6dB from -24 to -18dB. This post has been edited by DVDdoug: Jun 30 2011, 01:01 |
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tinpanalley Normalize Vs Volume increase Jun 29 2011, 23:08
db1989 tinpanalley, your observation matches tracks that ... Jun 30 2011, 12:31
tinpanalley Thanks so much for the thorough reply. So, 2 quest... Jun 30 2011, 01:06
DVDdoug QUOTE 1. What do you recommend I do with my settin... Jun 30 2011, 01:52
tinpanalley QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jun 29 2011, 20:52) CDs ... Jun 30 2011, 02:05
AndyH-ha There is no "need" to amplify or normali... Jun 30 2011, 02:55
tinpanalley But doesn't normalizing in making all loudness... Jun 30 2011, 03:09
tropicalfish QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Jun 29 2011, 21:09) ... Jun 30 2011, 05:15
tinpanalley QUOTE (tropicalfish @ Jun 30 2011, 00:15)... Jun 30 2011, 08:31
tinpanalley Well here's what I have... I think this will h... Jun 30 2011, 17:51
tropicalfish Record with Audacity.
Go to Normalize, and check O... Jun 30 2011, 19:25
db1989 QUOTE (tropicalfish @ Jun 30 2011, 19:25)... Jun 30 2011, 19:43
tropicalfish QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 30 2011, 13:43) QUOTE... Jun 30 2011, 22:51
db1989 QUOTE (tropicalfish @ Jun 30 2011, 22:51)... Jul 1 2011, 13:25
tinpanalley Perhaps I should have also stated that the way I r... Jun 30 2011, 20:31
AndyH-ha A recording made with proper equipment should not ... Jun 30 2011, 20:51
2Bdecided QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 30 2011, 20:51... Jul 1 2011, 18:19
musicollector QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 30 2011, 12:51... Nov 28 2011, 04:30
tinpanalley Ok, how about if I just control that from the phon... Jun 30 2011, 20:55
mixminus1 I'll second AndyH's advice on recording bo... Jun 30 2011, 21:01
tinpanalley I basically already do what you're suggesting ... Jun 30 2011, 21:06
AndyH-ha The gain is normally set to leave plenty of headro... Jun 30 2011, 21:24
tinpanalley QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 30 2011, 16:24... Jun 30 2011, 21:30
DVDdoug QUOTE How do I know if my sound card can handle 32... Jun 30 2011, 21:36
mixminus1 Audacity has the option to export to bit depths gr... Jun 30 2011, 21:40
tinpanalley QUOTE (mixminus1 @ Jun 30 2011, 16:40) Of... Jun 30 2011, 21:43
AndyH-ha Audacity is FREEware.
If may also be adequate for... Jun 30 2011, 22:15
tinpanalley Ok, I'm trying Sound Forge now. Aiming for -6d... Jun 30 2011, 22:16
mixminus1 QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Jun 30 2011, 14:16) ... Jun 30 2011, 22:36
AndyH-ha It may be true that most editors work in floating ... Jun 30 2011, 22:25
tinpanalley No, just that when I choose 32-bit (IEEE float) it... Jun 30 2011, 22:39
tinpanalley You see, that's what I thought. Jun 30 2011, 23:05
tropicalfish There are no 32-bit devices, so why use it? You mi... Jun 30 2011, 23:22
tinpanalley QUOTE (tropicalfish @ Jun 30 2011, 18:22)... Jun 30 2011, 23:52
tropicalfish So you want to record in floating point, and then ... Jul 1 2011, 01:15
tinpanalley I don't really care how I record. I just wanna... Jul 1 2011, 01:28
DVDdoug QUOTE 1. What do you recommend I do with my settin... Jul 1 2011, 01:53
tinpanalley All the 24 and 32 bit stuff still has me really co... Jul 1 2011, 04:08
2Bdecided QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Jul 1 2011, 04:08) I... Jul 1 2011, 18:25
tinpanalley Thanks for the wonderful feedback. Just wanted to ... Jul 1 2011, 19:51
AndyH-ha There exist a continuously varying analogue signal... Jul 1 2011, 06:06
AndyH-ha QUOTE Come on Andy - think that one through proper... Jul 1 2011, 20:36
DVDdoug QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 1 2011, 12:36)... Jul 1 2011, 22:12
2Bdecided QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jul 1 2011, 22:12) We... Jul 4 2011, 12:34
DVDdoug QUOTE It's the bits I don't get.OK, I... Jul 1 2011, 21:46
AndyH-ha My experience is based on CoolEdit Statistics repo... Jul 4 2011, 20:32
2Bdecided I think you may think I might be being clever than... Jul 4 2011, 23:34
AndyH-ha Perhaps I am just too ignorant of what is involved... Jul 5 2011, 08:38
2Bdecided Vinyl is an intrinsically AC-coupled format. It ha... Jul 5 2011, 14:08
pdq Think of it this way. If there is a DC offset in t... Jul 5 2011, 16:14
tinpanalley Hey all,
I've been absorbing everything you g... Jul 6 2011, 22:37
DVDdoug QUOTE - 32-bit IEEE Float?
- 32-bit PCM? Floating ... Jul 7 2011, 01:34
tinpanalley QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jul 6 2011, 20:34) [b]Do... Jul 7 2011, 05:06
AndyH-ha I'm curious about this inability to record in ... Jul 7 2011, 09:31
tinpanalley QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 7 2011, 04:31)... Jul 7 2011, 17:56
tinpanalley This is probably like asking if there is one way t... Jul 7 2011, 18:37
AndyH-ha There are many descriptions of the process publish... Jul 7 2011, 19:20
2Bdecided QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 7 2011, 19:20)... Jul 8 2011, 12:01
tinpanalley QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 8 2011, 07:01) The... Jul 8 2011, 15:49
DVDdoug QUOTE but is there any series of processes that ar... Jul 7 2011, 20:36
tinpanalley Here's a comparison of the 32-bit, higher gain... Jul 7 2011, 21:04
tinpanalley This sounds great to me as I'm hearing it even... Jul 7 2011, 22:16
greynol No you're not crazy, just know that 32 bits fo... Jul 7 2011, 22:34
DVDdoug QUOTE And normalising... if I get good levels on t... Jul 7 2011, 23:38
tinpanalley Couple of things:
QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jul 7 201... Jul 7 2011, 23:48
greynol No, they aren't contradictory at all. DVDdoug... Jul 8 2011, 00:03
tinpanalley Ok, my bad. I misunderstood. I have some people te... Jul 8 2011, 00:08
greynol QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Jul 7 2011, 16:08) I... Jul 8 2011, 00:55
DVDdoug QUOTE Then what is the difference to just doing a ... Jul 8 2011, 00:39
tinpanalley QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jul 7 2011, 19:39) But a... Jul 8 2011, 01:57
AndyH-ha The Sonic Foundry Noise Reduction plugin 2.0 has b... Jul 8 2011, 02:46
greynol I simply wanted to let you know that I respect tha... Jul 8 2011, 02:53
AndyH-ha I made an inquiry elsewhere. I got back that your ... Jul 8 2011, 03:04
tinpanalley Ohhh!!! Well, why didn't someone j... Jul 8 2011, 07:34
AndyH-ha Because Sound Forge has such an unusual approach (... Jul 8 2011, 08:19
tinpanalley QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 8 2011, 03:19)... Jul 8 2011, 15:45
tinpanalley This is the info from a download from the site (wh... Jul 8 2011, 16:08
2Bdecided Nothing automatic there, just "manual click r... Jul 8 2011, 20:30
DVDdoug QUOTE Is Audacity totally a lame program? Vinyl ca... Jul 8 2011, 20:32
AndyH-ha I 've paid no attention to Audacity for some y... Jul 8 2011, 20:36
tinpanalley QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 8 2011, 15:36)... Jul 8 2011, 21:09
greynol Um, no, The Beatles were recorded to tape and the ... Jul 8 2011, 21:16
tinpanalley QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 8 2011, 16:16) Um, n... Jul 8 2011, 22:46

greynol Denying that vinyl was the most common medium back... Jul 9 2011, 00:07
2Bdecided QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 8 2011, 21:16) Um, n... Jul 9 2011, 12:30
Juha Couple questions:
Would normalization be more sec... Jul 9 2011, 09:31
AndyH-ha What one gets by normalization is independent of t... Jul 9 2011, 09:40
tinpanalley If I'm going through a recording process with ... Nov 12 2011, 23:24
mjb2006 Why did you bump this thread? Your question has no... Nov 13 2011, 00:20

tinpanalley QUOTE (mjb2006 @ Nov 12 2011, 19:20) Why ... Nov 13 2011, 05:09
botface QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Nov 12 2011, 23:24) ... Nov 13 2011, 10:24
tinpanalley QUOTE (botface @ Nov 13 2011, 05:24) by s... Nov 13 2011, 22:24
2Bdecided QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Nov 13 2011, 22:24) ... Nov 15 2011, 11:23
AndyH-ha It also depends on the channel balance. Some cartr... Nov 15 2011, 11:36
2Bdecided QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Nov 15 2011, 11:36... Nov 16 2011, 13:43
botface Yes, I wasn't suggesting recording in mono as ... Nov 15 2011, 17:27![]() ![]() |
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