Normalize Vs Volume increase |
Normalize Vs Volume increase |
Jun 29 2011, 23:08
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#1
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Group: Members Posts: 111 Joined: 7-May 07 Member No.: 43262 |
I'm having trouble figuring out which of the two is better for me to create a vinyl recording at the highest volume without clipping.
I capture a record via my preamp into Audacity, and I get what seem to be relatively low levels even though I make sure the levels are right when I record (Peak: -6.4db, RMS -24.6db). Am I doing something wrong? Or are those levels right? These recordings don't seem as loud as mastered CDs. Anyway, to get the most accurate sound possible, should I use normalize or just increase the volume? If normalizing makes everything sound the same at a peak level, doesn't that completely screw with the dynamic range of the music? Thanks! |
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Jul 1 2011, 06:06
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#2
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Group: Members Posts: 2038 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 24222 |
There exist a continuously varying analogue signal from out of the analogue part of the recording chain. It is sampled by the ADC (in your case, inside the USB device). The bit depth is the precision to which it is sampled.
2 to the power of the number of bits is the number of different voltage values that can be output from the DAC (i.e. 2^16=65536 steps between minimum negative voltage and maximum positive voltage -- half of these for greater that 0, half for less than zero, minus one or two for the sign). The ADC must “choose,” from these 65536 possible values, the one that is closest to the “actual” value of the signal voltage. The more bits it can use (i.e. 24 bits), the smaller each step, so the closer the choice will be to the real analogue voltage (as measured with infinite precision, or at least more precision than the ADC can manage). 24 bits is the limit of the hardware. However, no soundcard can actually do 24 bits. Thermal noise fills the lowest order bits due to the nature of not living in a extra cold part of the universe, so voltages very (very) near zero are lost in noise. 16,777,216 steps for 24 bit covers exactly the same range as 65,536 steps for 16 bit, so the quantization error (difference between “actual” voltage and what the ADC can record) is that much smaller (2^24/2^16). If fact it isn’t possible to hear the difference but when you do post recording processing, the same kind of errors occur in each calculation, so they add up. There are a variety of 32 bit floating point formats but they are basically a 24 bit mantissa and a 8 bit exponent. This lets the data scale as necessary. Recording is not different between 24 bit and floating point but calculations errors are smaller and it is almost impossible to clip (unless you forget about >0dB values when you convert to integer). Any format, 16 bit integer, 24 bit integer, floating point (32 and 64 bit varieties) works fine for LP recordings, which have so much intrinsic noise that they obscure the differences. Still, why not do as well as you can? |
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tinpanalley Normalize Vs Volume increase Jun 29 2011, 23:08
DVDdoug Audacity's Amplify effect has an option of set... Jun 30 2011, 00:43
db1989 tinpanalley, your observation matches tracks that ... Jun 30 2011, 12:31
tinpanalley Thanks so much for the thorough reply. So, 2 quest... Jun 30 2011, 01:06
DVDdoug QUOTE 1. What do you recommend I do with my settin... Jun 30 2011, 01:52
tinpanalley QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jun 29 2011, 20:52) CDs ... Jun 30 2011, 02:05
AndyH-ha There is no "need" to amplify or normali... Jun 30 2011, 02:55
tinpanalley But doesn't normalizing in making all loudness... Jun 30 2011, 03:09
tropicalfish QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Jun 29 2011, 21:09) ... Jun 30 2011, 05:15
tinpanalley QUOTE (tropicalfish @ Jun 30 2011, 00:15)... Jun 30 2011, 08:31
tinpanalley Well here's what I have... I think this will h... Jun 30 2011, 17:51
tropicalfish Record with Audacity.
Go to Normalize, and check O... Jun 30 2011, 19:25
db1989 QUOTE (tropicalfish @ Jun 30 2011, 19:25)... Jun 30 2011, 19:43
tropicalfish QUOTE (db1989 @ Jun 30 2011, 13:43) QUOTE... Jun 30 2011, 22:51
db1989 QUOTE (tropicalfish @ Jun 30 2011, 22:51)... Jul 1 2011, 13:25
tinpanalley Perhaps I should have also stated that the way I r... Jun 30 2011, 20:31
AndyH-ha A recording made with proper equipment should not ... Jun 30 2011, 20:51
2Bdecided QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 30 2011, 20:51... Jul 1 2011, 18:19
musicollector QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 30 2011, 12:51... Nov 28 2011, 04:30
tinpanalley Ok, how about if I just control that from the phon... Jun 30 2011, 20:55
mixminus1 I'll second AndyH's advice on recording bo... Jun 30 2011, 21:01
tinpanalley I basically already do what you're suggesting ... Jun 30 2011, 21:06
AndyH-ha The gain is normally set to leave plenty of headro... Jun 30 2011, 21:24
tinpanalley QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jun 30 2011, 16:24... Jun 30 2011, 21:30
DVDdoug QUOTE How do I know if my sound card can handle 32... Jun 30 2011, 21:36
mixminus1 Audacity has the option to export to bit depths gr... Jun 30 2011, 21:40
tinpanalley QUOTE (mixminus1 @ Jun 30 2011, 16:40) Of... Jun 30 2011, 21:43
AndyH-ha Audacity is FREEware.
If may also be adequate for... Jun 30 2011, 22:15
tinpanalley Ok, I'm trying Sound Forge now. Aiming for -6d... Jun 30 2011, 22:16
mixminus1 QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Jun 30 2011, 14:16) ... Jun 30 2011, 22:36
AndyH-ha It may be true that most editors work in floating ... Jun 30 2011, 22:25
tinpanalley No, just that when I choose 32-bit (IEEE float) it... Jun 30 2011, 22:39
tinpanalley You see, that's what I thought. Jun 30 2011, 23:05
tropicalfish There are no 32-bit devices, so why use it? You mi... Jun 30 2011, 23:22
tinpanalley QUOTE (tropicalfish @ Jun 30 2011, 18:22)... Jun 30 2011, 23:52
tropicalfish So you want to record in floating point, and then ... Jul 1 2011, 01:15
tinpanalley I don't really care how I record. I just wanna... Jul 1 2011, 01:28
DVDdoug QUOTE 1. What do you recommend I do with my settin... Jul 1 2011, 01:53
tinpanalley All the 24 and 32 bit stuff still has me really co... Jul 1 2011, 04:08
2Bdecided QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Jul 1 2011, 04:08) I... Jul 1 2011, 18:25
tinpanalley Thanks for the wonderful feedback. Just wanted to ... Jul 1 2011, 19:51
AndyH-ha QUOTE Come on Andy - think that one through proper... Jul 1 2011, 20:36
DVDdoug QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 1 2011, 12:36)... Jul 1 2011, 22:12
2Bdecided QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jul 1 2011, 22:12) We... Jul 4 2011, 12:34
DVDdoug QUOTE It's the bits I don't get.OK, I... Jul 1 2011, 21:46
AndyH-ha My experience is based on CoolEdit Statistics repo... Jul 4 2011, 20:32
2Bdecided I think you may think I might be being clever than... Jul 4 2011, 23:34
AndyH-ha Perhaps I am just too ignorant of what is involved... Jul 5 2011, 08:38
2Bdecided Vinyl is an intrinsically AC-coupled format. It ha... Jul 5 2011, 14:08
pdq Think of it this way. If there is a DC offset in t... Jul 5 2011, 16:14
tinpanalley Hey all,
I've been absorbing everything you g... Jul 6 2011, 22:37
DVDdoug QUOTE - 32-bit IEEE Float?
- 32-bit PCM? Floating ... Jul 7 2011, 01:34
tinpanalley QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jul 6 2011, 20:34) [b]Do... Jul 7 2011, 05:06
AndyH-ha I'm curious about this inability to record in ... Jul 7 2011, 09:31
tinpanalley QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 7 2011, 04:31)... Jul 7 2011, 17:56
tinpanalley This is probably like asking if there is one way t... Jul 7 2011, 18:37
AndyH-ha There are many descriptions of the process publish... Jul 7 2011, 19:20
2Bdecided QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 7 2011, 19:20)... Jul 8 2011, 12:01
tinpanalley QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 8 2011, 07:01) The... Jul 8 2011, 15:49
DVDdoug QUOTE but is there any series of processes that ar... Jul 7 2011, 20:36
tinpanalley Here's a comparison of the 32-bit, higher gain... Jul 7 2011, 21:04
tinpanalley This sounds great to me as I'm hearing it even... Jul 7 2011, 22:16
greynol No you're not crazy, just know that 32 bits fo... Jul 7 2011, 22:34
DVDdoug QUOTE And normalising... if I get good levels on t... Jul 7 2011, 23:38
tinpanalley Couple of things:
QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jul 7 201... Jul 7 2011, 23:48
greynol No, they aren't contradictory at all. DVDdoug... Jul 8 2011, 00:03
tinpanalley Ok, my bad. I misunderstood. I have some people te... Jul 8 2011, 00:08
greynol QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Jul 7 2011, 16:08) I... Jul 8 2011, 00:55
DVDdoug QUOTE Then what is the difference to just doing a ... Jul 8 2011, 00:39
tinpanalley QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jul 7 2011, 19:39) But a... Jul 8 2011, 01:57
AndyH-ha The Sonic Foundry Noise Reduction plugin 2.0 has b... Jul 8 2011, 02:46
greynol I simply wanted to let you know that I respect tha... Jul 8 2011, 02:53
AndyH-ha I made an inquiry elsewhere. I got back that your ... Jul 8 2011, 03:04
tinpanalley Ohhh!!! Well, why didn't someone j... Jul 8 2011, 07:34
AndyH-ha Because Sound Forge has such an unusual approach (... Jul 8 2011, 08:19
tinpanalley QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 8 2011, 03:19)... Jul 8 2011, 15:45
tinpanalley This is the info from a download from the site (wh... Jul 8 2011, 16:08
2Bdecided Nothing automatic there, just "manual click r... Jul 8 2011, 20:30
DVDdoug QUOTE Is Audacity totally a lame program? Vinyl ca... Jul 8 2011, 20:32
AndyH-ha I 've paid no attention to Audacity for some y... Jul 8 2011, 20:36
tinpanalley QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 8 2011, 15:36)... Jul 8 2011, 21:09
greynol Um, no, The Beatles were recorded to tape and the ... Jul 8 2011, 21:16
tinpanalley QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 8 2011, 16:16) Um, n... Jul 8 2011, 22:46

greynol Denying that vinyl was the most common medium back... Jul 9 2011, 00:07
2Bdecided QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 8 2011, 21:16) Um, n... Jul 9 2011, 12:30
Juha Couple questions:
Would normalization be more sec... Jul 9 2011, 09:31
AndyH-ha What one gets by normalization is independent of t... Jul 9 2011, 09:40
tinpanalley If I'm going through a recording process with ... Nov 12 2011, 23:24
mjb2006 Why did you bump this thread? Your question has no... Nov 13 2011, 00:20

tinpanalley QUOTE (mjb2006 @ Nov 12 2011, 19:20) Why ... Nov 13 2011, 05:09
botface QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Nov 12 2011, 23:24) ... Nov 13 2011, 10:24
tinpanalley QUOTE (botface @ Nov 13 2011, 05:24) by s... Nov 13 2011, 22:24
2Bdecided QUOTE (tinpanalley @ Nov 13 2011, 22:24) ... Nov 15 2011, 11:23
AndyH-ha It also depends on the channel balance. Some cartr... Nov 15 2011, 11:36
2Bdecided QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Nov 15 2011, 11:36... Nov 16 2011, 13:43
botface Yes, I wasn't suggesting recording in mono as ... Nov 15 2011, 17:27![]() ![]() |
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