Perception of Pace/Rhythm/Timing (PRaT) -- genetic? |
Perception of Pace/Rhythm/Timing (PRaT) -- genetic? |
Jul 4 2011, 16:24
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#1
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 24-March 07 From: The Soil Stack Member No.: 41808 |
A somewhat "controversial" topic in audio gear subjective reviewing is the reproduction of Pace/Rhythm/Timing, sometimes abbreviated PRaT. (Sometimes, PRAT with a cap. 'A' may denote A=acceleration). The topic also includes an interdependent subjective metric, dynamics.
Perhaps the seminal introduction to the phenomenon is the Nov. 1992 article in Stereophile, Pace, Rhythm, & Dynamics by Martin Colloms . I noted that this topic is "controversial" in that it not often reported in gear/equipment reviews -- especially in forum- or message-board-based reviews ... where most folks stick to the common (and, IMO, repetitive) BMTS (bass, mids, treble, soundstage). From there, some may additionally describe, e.g., a headphone's 'dynamic' or 'speed' qualities. But when asked to comment on PRaT, the same reviewer responds with puzzlement, smug ridicule, or ignorance. Pace/Rhythm/Timing -- or PRaT -- is something I'm particularly sensitive too. It is one of the first attributes that I notice the presence or absence of in audio gear, like headphones, all else held equal. I even notice it in slow music, like adagio or lento movements (the Colloms article above goes into this a bit). Because of the apparent "underreporting" of the "PRaT" phenomenon as important audiological subjective metrics -- and even some hostility as to its importance or even its existence -- I'm wondering how much its perception is genetic. This may be like genetic sensitivity to perfect pitch: http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/study/ Or, more simply, the PTC genetic bitterness test from high-school biology class? This post has been edited by hollowman: Jul 4 2011, 16:42 -------------------- Above post confusing? See my HA 'About Me' page.
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Jul 5 2011, 03:20
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#2
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Group: Members Posts: 2082 Joined: 18-December 03 Member No.: 10538 |
I noted that this topic is "controversial" in that it not often reported in gear/equipment reviews -- PRAT is 'controversial' first and foremost because it hasn't been shown to actually exist as a quality of gear, not because it is 'underreported' It is, however, perhaps the most delightfully well-named bit of nonsense to be associated with audiophilia. As for the rest of your post, you might as well ask if ESP is genetic. That's called 'jumping the gun'. This post has been edited by krabapple: Jul 5 2011, 03:22 |
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Jul 5 2011, 08:48
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#3
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 24-March 07 From: The Soil Stack Member No.: 41808 |
[...] you might as well ask if ESP is genetic. That's called 'jumping the gun'. Several of you have responded with valid counter-arguments. But what about the UCSD study of perceived perfect/absolute pitch as a genetic trait? Is that 'jumping the gun', too?
This post has been edited by hollowman: Jul 5 2011, 09:02 -------------------- Above post confusing? See my HA 'About Me' page.
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Jul 5 2011, 15:25
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#4
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Group: Members Posts: 2082 Joined: 18-December 03 Member No.: 10538 |
[...] you might as well ask if ESP is genetic. That's called 'jumping the gun'. Several of you have responded with valid counter-arguments. But what about the UCSD study of perceived perfect/absolute pitch as a genetic trait? Is that 'jumping the gun', too?No, because 'perfect pitch' demonstrably exists, and is a quality of the listener. Nor does anyone dispute that frequency differences can be audible. Nor is a relationship between pitch perception and frequency imaginary. Nor is it in dispute that different audio gear could produce different audible frequencies....though there are whole classes of gear that shouldn't. What is in dispute is that audio gear has intrinsic qualities that produce different stimuli in the listener for 'pace, rhythm, and timing'. Evidence please. Or at least, explain why your question is any different from 'Is ESP genetic?' Your arguments and pseudoscientific charts so far ring hollow. This post has been edited by krabapple: Jul 5 2011, 15:36 |
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hollowman Perception of Pace/Rhythm/Timing (PRaT) -- genetic? Jul 4 2011, 16:24
greynol QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 4 2011, 08:24) I... Jul 4 2011, 16:43
hollowman QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 4 2011, 08:43) QUOTE... Jul 5 2011, 09:11
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 4 2011, 11:24) A s... Jul 4 2011, 19:22
RobWansbeck Many years after reading the first, 1978, edition ... Jul 5 2011, 01:28
kraut I find that the thread opener follows the usual au... Jul 5 2011, 02:19
greynol I truly hope this doesn't end up like it did w... Jul 5 2011, 02:44
hollowman QUOTE (krabapple @ Jul 5 2011, 07:25) Wha... Jul 8 2011, 13:44
db1989 QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 8 2011, 13:44) gre... Jul 8 2011, 13:50
AndyH-ha Perhaps the inclination to believe in such things ... Jul 5 2011, 07:26
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 5 2011, 02:26)... Jul 5 2011, 09:20
hollowman QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 4 2011, 23:26)... Jul 5 2011, 09:37
hollowman QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 01:37) (se... Jul 5 2011, 13:17
dhromed QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 14:17) Fig... Jul 5 2011, 16:22
hlloyge QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 14:17) I... Jul 5 2011, 18:22
Woodinville Pace, rhythm and timing are all sensations that co... Jul 5 2011, 08:09
hollowman QUOTE (Woodinville @ Jul 5 2011, 00:09) P... Jul 5 2011, 08:59
Woodinville QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 00:59) Not... Jul 5 2011, 11:01
hollowman QUOTE (Woodinville @ Jul 5 2011, 03:01) Q... Jul 5 2011, 11:54
Soap QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 06:54) How... Jul 5 2011, 12:18
hollowman QUOTE (Soap @ Jul 5 2011, 04:18) QUOTE (h... Jul 5 2011, 14:05
Soap QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 09:05) QUO... Jul 5 2011, 14:14
DonP We do get the occasional golden eared prat in here... Jul 5 2011, 13:17
Soap Mods, can you lock this thread already? OP (hollo... Jul 5 2011, 13:58
kraut QUOTE Extremely refreshing, Kraut
Maybe it is ref... Jul 5 2011, 15:51
drewfx A simple, non-judgmental question:
If a system ca... Jul 5 2011, 16:42
benski QUOTE (drewfx @ Jul 5 2011, 11:42) A simp... Jul 5 2011, 19:21
drewfx If these effects were audible, would you expect th... Jul 5 2011, 19:38

benski QUOTE (drewfx @ Jul 5 2011, 14:38) If the... Jul 5 2011, 19:51
DonP QUOTE (benski @ Jul 5 2011, 13:21) [
I... Jul 5 2011, 21:43

greynol QUOTE (DonP @ Jul 5 2011, 13:43) fuzzily ... Jul 5 2011, 22:31

Woodinville QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 5 2011, 14:31) This ... Oct 16 2011, 05:02

lbstyling QUOTE (Woodinville @ Oct 16 2011, 04:02) ... Jan 4 2012, 22:10
Notat QUOTE (benski @ Jul 5 2011, 12:21) I... Jul 6 2011, 16:03
Soap They should show up as measurable distortion, no? Jul 5 2011, 19:46
benski QUOTE (Soap @ Jul 5 2011, 14:46) They sho... Jul 5 2011, 19:53
drewfx So then the devil's advocate argument is:
1. ... Jul 5 2011, 20:18
greynol QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 01:11) It ... Jul 5 2011, 21:16
db1989 Having read a little of the Stereophile article li... Jan 4 2012, 22:39
disfrontman QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 4 2012, 16:39) QUOTE ... Jan 5 2012, 03:29
knutinh 1. Find some discussion-forum with a clear profile... Jul 6 2011, 07:23
Nick.C Likes ^.
(we need a like button for posts...... ... Jul 6 2011, 08:22
WernerO Perhaps time for a bit of history?
The whole PRaT... Jan 5 2012, 08:56![]() ![]() |
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