Perception of Pace/Rhythm/Timing (PRaT) -- genetic? |
Perception of Pace/Rhythm/Timing (PRaT) -- genetic? |
Jul 4 2011, 16:24
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 24-March 07 From: The Soil Stack Member No.: 41808 |
A somewhat "controversial" topic in audio gear subjective reviewing is the reproduction of Pace/Rhythm/Timing, sometimes abbreviated PRaT. (Sometimes, PRAT with a cap. 'A' may denote A=acceleration). The topic also includes an interdependent subjective metric, dynamics.
Perhaps the seminal introduction to the phenomenon is the Nov. 1992 article in Stereophile, Pace, Rhythm, & Dynamics by Martin Colloms . I noted that this topic is "controversial" in that it not often reported in gear/equipment reviews -- especially in forum- or message-board-based reviews ... where most folks stick to the common (and, IMO, repetitive) BMTS (bass, mids, treble, soundstage). From there, some may additionally describe, e.g., a headphone's 'dynamic' or 'speed' qualities. But when asked to comment on PRaT, the same reviewer responds with puzzlement, smug ridicule, or ignorance. Pace/Rhythm/Timing -- or PRaT -- is something I'm particularly sensitive too. It is one of the first attributes that I notice the presence or absence of in audio gear, like headphones, all else held equal. I even notice it in slow music, like adagio or lento movements (the Colloms article above goes into this a bit). Because of the apparent "underreporting" of the "PRaT" phenomenon as important audiological subjective metrics -- and even some hostility as to its importance or even its existence -- I'm wondering how much its perception is genetic. This may be like genetic sensitivity to perfect pitch: http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/study/ Or, more simply, the PTC genetic bitterness test from high-school biology class? This post has been edited by hollowman: Jul 4 2011, 16:42 -------------------- Above post confusing? See my HA 'About Me' page.
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Jul 4 2011, 19:22
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#2
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 3212 Joined: 29-October 08 From: USA, 48236 Member No.: 61311 |
A somewhat "controversial" topic in audio gear subjective reviewing is the reproduction of Pace/Rhythm/Timing, sometimes abbreviated PRaT. (Sometimes, PRAT with a cap. 'A' may denote A=acceleration). The topic also includes an interdependent subjective metric, dynamics. Perhaps the seminal introduction to the phenomenon is the Nov. 1992 article in Stereophile, Pace, Rhythm, & Dynamics by Martin Colloms . I noted that this topic is "controversial" in that it not often reported in gear/equipment reviews -- especially in forum- or message-board-based reviews ... where most folks stick to the common (and, IMO, repetitive) BMTS (bass, mids, treble, soundstage). From there, some may additionally describe, e.g., a headphone's 'dynamic' or 'speed' qualities. But when asked to comment on PRaT, the same reviewer responds with puzzlement, smug ridicule, or ignorance. Pace/Rhythm/Timing -- or PRaT -- is something I'm particularly sensitive too. It is one of the first attributes that I notice the presence or absence of in audio gear, like headphones, all else held equal. I even notice it in slow music, like adagio or lento movements (the Colloms article above goes into this a bit). Because of the apparent "underreporting" of the "PRaT" phenomenon as important audiological subjective metrics -- and even some hostility as to its importance or even its existence -- I'm wondering how much its perception is genetic. This may be like genetic sensitivity to perfect pitch: http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/study/ Or, more simply, the PTC genetic bitterness test from high-school biology class? There are a few small problems with PRaT. The first problem is that differences in PRaT are attributed to equipment that have no known physical capability for altering the Pace/Rhythm/Timing of the signals passing through them to an audible degree. The second problem is that differences in PRaT are attributed to equipment that have no known physical capability for altering the Pace/Rhythm/Timing of the signals passing through them to a measurable degree. The third problem is that differences in PRaT are attributed to equipment that cannot be distinguished from each other in reliable listening tests. Differences in PRaT appear to be artifacts of sighted listening evaluations. Now, if you can provide any experiental evidence to the contrary, I would be very happy to try to replicate a reliable, bias controlled listening test that was positive for differences in PRaT. AFAIK no such thing exists to this day. |
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hollowman Perception of Pace/Rhythm/Timing (PRaT) -- genetic? Jul 4 2011, 16:24
greynol QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 4 2011, 08:24) I... Jul 4 2011, 16:43
hollowman QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 4 2011, 08:43) QUOTE... Jul 5 2011, 09:11
RobWansbeck Many years after reading the first, 1978, edition ... Jul 5 2011, 01:28
kraut I find that the thread opener follows the usual au... Jul 5 2011, 02:19
greynol I truly hope this doesn't end up like it did w... Jul 5 2011, 02:44
krabapple QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 4 2011, 11:24) I n... Jul 5 2011, 03:20
hollowman QUOTE (krabapple @ Jul 4 2011, 19:20) [..... Jul 5 2011, 08:48
krabapple QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 03:48) QUO... Jul 5 2011, 15:25
hollowman QUOTE (krabapple @ Jul 5 2011, 07:25) Wha... Jul 8 2011, 13:44
db1989 QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 8 2011, 13:44) gre... Jul 8 2011, 13:50
AndyH-ha Perhaps the inclination to believe in such things ... Jul 5 2011, 07:26
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 5 2011, 02:26)... Jul 5 2011, 09:20
hollowman QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Jul 4 2011, 23:26)... Jul 5 2011, 09:37
hollowman QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 01:37) (se... Jul 5 2011, 13:17
dhromed QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 14:17) Fig... Jul 5 2011, 16:22
hlloyge QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 14:17) I... Jul 5 2011, 18:22
Woodinville Pace, rhythm and timing are all sensations that co... Jul 5 2011, 08:09
hollowman QUOTE (Woodinville @ Jul 5 2011, 00:09) P... Jul 5 2011, 08:59
Woodinville QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 00:59) Not... Jul 5 2011, 11:01
hollowman QUOTE (Woodinville @ Jul 5 2011, 03:01) Q... Jul 5 2011, 11:54
Soap QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 06:54) How... Jul 5 2011, 12:18
hollowman QUOTE (Soap @ Jul 5 2011, 04:18) QUOTE (h... Jul 5 2011, 14:05
Soap QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 09:05) QUO... Jul 5 2011, 14:14
DonP We do get the occasional golden eared prat in here... Jul 5 2011, 13:17
Soap Mods, can you lock this thread already? OP (hollo... Jul 5 2011, 13:58
kraut QUOTE Extremely refreshing, Kraut
Maybe it is ref... Jul 5 2011, 15:51
drewfx A simple, non-judgmental question:
If a system ca... Jul 5 2011, 16:42
benski QUOTE (drewfx @ Jul 5 2011, 11:42) A simp... Jul 5 2011, 19:21
drewfx If these effects were audible, would you expect th... Jul 5 2011, 19:38

benski QUOTE (drewfx @ Jul 5 2011, 14:38) If the... Jul 5 2011, 19:51
DonP QUOTE (benski @ Jul 5 2011, 13:21) [
I... Jul 5 2011, 21:43

greynol QUOTE (DonP @ Jul 5 2011, 13:43) fuzzily ... Jul 5 2011, 22:31

Woodinville QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 5 2011, 14:31) This ... Oct 16 2011, 05:02

lbstyling QUOTE (Woodinville @ Oct 16 2011, 04:02) ... Jan 4 2012, 22:10
Notat QUOTE (benski @ Jul 5 2011, 12:21) I... Jul 6 2011, 16:03
Soap They should show up as measurable distortion, no? Jul 5 2011, 19:46
benski QUOTE (Soap @ Jul 5 2011, 14:46) They sho... Jul 5 2011, 19:53
drewfx So then the devil's advocate argument is:
1. ... Jul 5 2011, 20:18
greynol QUOTE (hollowman @ Jul 5 2011, 01:11) It ... Jul 5 2011, 21:16
db1989 Having read a little of the Stereophile article li... Jan 4 2012, 22:39
disfrontman QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 4 2012, 16:39) QUOTE ... Jan 5 2012, 03:29
knutinh 1. Find some discussion-forum with a clear profile... Jul 6 2011, 07:23
Nick.C Likes ^.
(we need a like button for posts...... ... Jul 6 2011, 08:22
WernerO Perhaps time for a bit of history?
The whole PRaT... Jan 5 2012, 08:56![]() ![]() |
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