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"Music Sounds Better on Vinyl", I am so tired of this argument being brought up by the layperson
ozmosis82
post Oct 13 2011, 17:56
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mona-elyafi/..._b_1008876.html

Ugh.

Of special note is the 5th paragraph where she basically shoots herself in the foot:

"Now I don't pretend to be a tech whiz by any means and I am sure I know absolutely nothing about how it all works and why, but the one thing I know for certain though is that music sounds better on vinyl."

If they approve my comment, it should be the first one.
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kraut
post Feb 14 2012, 07:48
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QUOTE
The frequency range of LPs that I rip is far superior


Who gives a fuck about noise? Do you really think there is actual musical information contained? How would you know that? Are you of the order chiroptera?

QUOTE
Has anyone else tried this experiment?

No, I own a few thorens and a transcriptor and a technics sl10, with denon cartridges and the technics M310. I have tried cartridges from Shure Ultra 500 to Shure V15VXMR to Goldring 1042 to several ortofons. I aslo have used tonearms from Acos Lustre to Rega RB 350 to the present setup with an airbearing tangential arm to a SME 2 and an SME 3 arm.

Each change was the result of intensive listening and selecting the best arm/cartridge combo as to behaviour on test reords and actual music. Criteria was sibliance, sensitivity to surface noise, tracking etc.

I stuck with the Denon because of their neutral sound when compared to other cartridges. My preamp is a DIY customized studio Logitek with transformer impedance matching inputs. I also have used the Stanton and a freestanding Naim phono section with a very quiet powersupply only to find I was unable to hear a difference. I still have over two thousand LPs but in contrast to you I have done blind test (really blinded) with level matching and switching done by a friend, and in no way can support your contention that vinyl is in any way superior.
I ran the analogue and the digital signal from a Micromega Stage 2 through a sample rate converter at 24/96 into a deq 24/96 used for room response correction. The signal this way could be easily level matched and after some tries timed precisely and switched trough the SRC easily between the two sources.

I ran Bryston BP20 preamp for the analogue section (tuner and phono) with a passive volume control with Alps sixgang pots after the deq into total of three Bryston amps (2B, 4B, 4BST)

To our combined chagrin the sound quality was only distinguishable by the typical noise - if ever so faint on the best records - of the lead in and the between tracks silent groove who unfortunately even on new old stock records fresh out of the plastic cover is never silent.

QUOTE
its just clear to me that vinyl has more fidelity than 16 / 44.1 can reproduce. Especially old vinyl just sounds incredible -- clear, wide and deep sound stage, realistic, open.


That is a contention you would have to prove in a blinded test - which unfortunately because of the inherently higher noise in records can only be done by digitizing LP and cleaning it up sonically.

I have listened to both side by side and can only say you claims are at the same level as those who claim they can hear differences between cables, shakti stones and other such unfounded statements.

And btw - after I had compared an fucking ancient Quad 405 amp with bulging caps in the PS section into the same Kef 104/2 and absolutely could not hear any sonic difference between the two (a Bryston 4BST, running CD bypassing all the sound processing stuff) I sold all the Bryston gear and got myself two AS 2.100 amps from hypex and mounted those in the base of the kefs, fed directly from my server and never regretted the move for on instance.

Oh, I think you are definitely in the minority, as your contentions seems to be more inspired by untested belief than by evidence.

This post has been edited by kraut: Feb 14 2012, 08:11
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knutinh
post Feb 14 2012, 09:01
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QUOTE (kraut @ Feb 14 2012, 08:48) *
That is a contention you would have to prove in a blinded test - which unfortunately because of the inherently higher noise in records can only be done by digitizing LP and cleaning it up sonically.

I would think that if you do 20 separate digitizations, it would be possible to do a proper ABX test of vinyl vs digitized vinyl. There would be audible noise, distortion etc, but not in a way that would unfairly make it easier to identify which is which.

If (predictably) 16/44.1 does not audibly degrade sound, then we have indication that CD can be used for anything that vinyl can be used for, as long as those bits and bytes are filled with the subjectively preferred data.

It is well-known that masterings do differ significantly, and not surprising that some people will prefer specific masters from the 60s, 70s or 80s over more recent ones. It also seems that choice of vinyl playback equipment can affect sound audibly, and if some audiophile refuse himself to alter the sound of CDs using suitable means, but allow himself to do the same for vinyl playback, this opens up a larger window for perceptually pleasing vinyl.

This discussion shows the amazing fact that vinyl, though being half a century or older in its mature form, was still good enough to be even considered compared to todays technology.

-k

This post has been edited by knutinh: Feb 14 2012, 09:14
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Posts in this topic
- ozmosis82   "Music Sounds Better on Vinyl"   Oct 13 2011, 17:56
- - dhromed   I don't mind vinyl lovers liking the physical ...   Oct 13 2011, 18:32
- - Canar   It's an opinion piece, nothing more. Music sou...   Oct 13 2011, 20:00
- - C.R.Helmrich   Indeed. An opinion of a person who grew up with vi...   Oct 13 2011, 20:12
- - DVDdoug   How did on opinion piece leak onto The Huffington ...   Oct 13 2011, 20:23
- - Brand   I think your rant is a bit out of place here. It...   Oct 13 2011, 21:29
|- - tawd   As she admits she is not aware of the technical as...   Oct 13 2011, 23:27
- - Cavaille   QUOTE And I'm not just talking about the way i...   Oct 14 2011, 01:28
- - polemon   I believe, that what she's referring to, is th...   Oct 14 2011, 02:08
|- - musicollector   QUOTE (polemon @ Oct 13 2011, 19:08) I be...   Oct 27 2011, 02:39
|- - MichaelW   QUOTE (musicollector @ Oct 27 2011, 13:39...   Oct 27 2011, 22:59
|- - Goratrix   QUOTE (MichaelW @ Oct 27 2011, 23:59) But...   Oct 28 2011, 10:16
||- - PoisonDan   That's actually quite cool. Not really useful,...   Oct 28 2011, 11:38
||- - MichaelW   QUOTE (Goratrix @ Oct 28 2011, 21:16) Som...   Oct 28 2011, 21:51
|- - musicollector   QUOTE (MichaelW @ Oct 27 2011, 15:59) QUO...   Oct 28 2011, 18:34
|- - musicollector   QUOTE (MichaelW @ Oct 27 2011, 15:59) QUO...   Oct 29 2011, 04:14
- - Woodinville   It would be nice if the author didn't deify he...   Oct 14 2011, 02:15
- - testyou   She's just an older person with nostalgia for ...   Oct 14 2011, 03:16
- - andy o   Sheesh, if that's your beef with the FluffPo, ...   Oct 14 2011, 04:34
- - IgorC   Vinyl was my first experience with music when I wa...   Oct 14 2011, 04:51
- - hellokeith   How much work has been done on vinyl simulation? ...   Oct 14 2011, 06:33
- - FreaqyFrequency   http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/ If y...   Oct 14 2011, 07:00
|- - Glenn Gundlach   QUOTE (FreaqyFrequency @ Oct 13 2011, 22...   Oct 14 2011, 19:04
- - polemon   This might me slightly off-topic, but I'm wond...   Oct 14 2011, 10:58
|- - mixminus1   QUOTE (polemon @ Oct 14 2011, 02:58) This...   Oct 14 2011, 17:25
|- - polemon   QUOTE (mixminus1 @ Oct 14 2011, 18:25) It...   Oct 15 2011, 01:24
- - dhromed   Assuming the cutting process is flawless, you can ...   Oct 14 2011, 11:07
- - FreaqyFrequency   http://soundcloud.com/theastralobservatory...-gain...   Oct 14 2011, 18:42
- - db1989   Surely, if they were really good, they could make ...   Oct 27 2011, 23:18
- - kraut   Most newly released LPs contain a link for a digit...   Oct 28 2011, 02:03
- - Juha   What 'bout sound of DBX 'coded' vinyls...   Oct 28 2011, 14:28
- - Remedial Sound   Here's another golden nugget from a reviewer a...   Oct 28 2011, 17:20
- - DVDdoug   QUOTE What 'bout sound of DBX 'coded' ...   Oct 28 2011, 17:50
|- - musicollector   QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Oct 28 2011, 10:50) QUOT...   Oct 29 2011, 04:10
- - Raptus   It is a matter of aesthetics and not (how laymen o...   Oct 28 2011, 19:37
- - db1989   QUOTE The only question then is, why bother to cut...   Oct 28 2011, 22:03
- - d_headshot   New music on both vinyl and digital sounds terribl...   Oct 29 2011, 01:06
|- - Brod   QUOTE (d_headshot @ Oct 29 2011, 08:06) N...   Feb 9 2012, 05:08
|- - greynol   QUOTE (Brod @ Feb 8 2012, 20:08) Hell, ev...   Feb 9 2012, 06:24
|- - Brod   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 9 2012, 13:24) ...in...   Feb 9 2012, 17:38
|- - skamp   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 9 2012, 06:24) QUOTE...   Feb 10 2012, 15:19
- - ron spencer   doesn't this depend on the mastering? Everybo...   Oct 29 2011, 16:06
|- - musicollector   QUOTE (ron spencer @ Oct 29 2011, 09:06) ...   Oct 29 2011, 21:52
- - RonaldDumsfeld   QUOTE Something like This? smile.gif That's J...   Oct 29 2011, 21:26
- - smpltn   It's all about the mastering at the time vinyl...   Oct 29 2011, 22:37
- - mixminus1   It all depends on the choices made by the artists/...   Oct 30 2011, 07:11
- - ron spencer   That's the rub then...one needs to know how th...   Oct 30 2011, 15:38
- - pdq   They probably think that people who buy vinyl are ...   Oct 31 2011, 01:44
- - liffy99   It's not the medium, it's the actual recor...   Oct 31 2011, 10:05
- - pdq   Actually the loudness button did something quite d...   Oct 31 2011, 14:34
|- - liffy99   QUOTE (pdq @ Oct 31 2011, 13:34) Actually...   Oct 31 2011, 19:29
|- - pdq   QUOTE (liffy99 @ Oct 31 2011, 14:29) Well...   Oct 31 2011, 19:56
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (liffy99 @ Oct 31 2011, 14:29) QUOT...   Oct 31 2011, 20:56
- - Wombat   How i was happy the first day i played a CD at hom...   Oct 31 2011, 14:55
- - 4sure   When CDs first arrived, people often complaint abo...   Nov 1 2011, 05:36
|- - kraut   QUOTE people often complaint about their harsh sou...   Nov 1 2011, 06:51
- - mixminus1   Yes - for the past 25 years or so, the "audio...   Nov 1 2011, 14:28
- - Roseval   Vinyl sounds superior by design. First step is to ...   Feb 9 2012, 18:30
|- - Paulhoff   QUOTE (Roseval @ Feb 9 2012, 13:30) Vinyl...   Feb 10 2012, 04:03
- - Brod   The defects of vinyl are irrelevant if only the CD...   Feb 10 2012, 08:44
|- - Canar   QUOTE (Brod @ Feb 9 2012, 23:44) The defe...   Feb 10 2012, 08:55
|- - Paulhoff   QUOTE (Brod @ Feb 10 2012, 03:44) The def...   Feb 10 2012, 15:04
- - Bartholomew MacGruber   I've heard various arguments about vinyl being...   Feb 10 2012, 15:33
|- - julf   QUOTE (Bartholomew MacGruber @ Feb 10 2012, 1...   Feb 10 2012, 16:41
|- - andy o   QUOTE (julf @ Feb 10 2012, 07:41) QUOTE (...   Feb 11 2012, 17:39
|- - julf   Why do you think it is misguided? Of course, you c...   Feb 11 2012, 18:37
- - pdq   If you don't change the volume setting while y...   Feb 10 2012, 16:03
|- - Paulhoff   QUOTE (pdq @ Feb 10 2012, 11:03) If you d...   Feb 10 2012, 16:30
- - Paulhoff   With using dither, the dynamic range can be increa...   Feb 10 2012, 17:02
- - k00zk0   A lot of people definitely like noise, and I'd...   Feb 11 2012, 14:02
- - dumdidum   QUOTE (k00zk0 @ Feb 11 2012, 14:02) For a...   Feb 11 2012, 14:15
- - pdq   I'm not sure that I would call it misguided ei...   Feb 11 2012, 20:49
|- - julf   QUOTE (pdq @ Feb 11 2012, 20:49) When the...   Feb 11 2012, 21:37
- - greynol   The question was about dynamic resolution. Maybe ...   Feb 11 2012, 21:40
|- - julf   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 11 2012, 21:40) The ...   Feb 11 2012, 22:02
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (julf @ Feb 11 2012, 16:02) QUOTE (...   Feb 11 2012, 22:40
|- - julf   QUOTE (krabapple @ Feb 11 2012, 22:40) La...   Feb 11 2012, 22:44
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (julf @ Feb 11 2012, 16:44) QUOTE (...   Feb 11 2012, 22:58
- - andy o   What I think he meant is that if there's any w...   Feb 11 2012, 21:48
- - andy o   I have a feeling for what he's trying to ask, ...   Feb 11 2012, 22:18
- - krabapple   And I think one non-highly-technical version of t...   Feb 11 2012, 22:56
|- - Bartholomew MacGruber   QUOTE (krabapple @ Feb 11 2012, 22:56) An...   Feb 13 2012, 16:24
- - bred   QUOTE (Roseval @ Feb 9 2012, 18:30) Vinyl...   Feb 12 2012, 12:22
|- - pdq   QUOTE (bred @ Feb 12 2012, 07:22) We don...   Feb 12 2012, 14:14
||- - Paulhoff   QUOTE (pdq @ Feb 12 2012, 09:14) QUOTE (b...   Feb 12 2012, 15:03
|- - kraut   QUOTE Ok your have right. From the point view of a...   Feb 12 2012, 20:00
- - lvqcl   QUOTE But consider that our brain prefer the middl...   Feb 12 2012, 13:40
- - LithosZA   QUOTE ...Oh noes, this: Off topic: That preset i...   Feb 12 2012, 14:20
- - kennedyb4   QUOTE (LithosZA @ Feb 12 2012, 08:20) QUO...   Feb 12 2012, 14:30
- - Antigen   This is the same war that actually is made by CD v...   Feb 12 2012, 20:41
- - pdq   If the human ear had been better than 16 bits of d...   Feb 13 2012, 16:47
|- - MichaelW   QUOTE (pdq @ Feb 14 2012, 04:47) If the h...   Feb 14 2012, 04:23
- - Gretschguy   I think I'm in the minority on this thread. I...   Feb 14 2012, 06:50
|- - cliveb   QUOTE (Gretschguy @ Feb 14 2012, 05:50) I...   Feb 14 2012, 10:03
- - kraut   QUOTE The frequency range of LPs that I rip is far...   Feb 14 2012, 07:48
|- - knutinh   QUOTE (kraut @ Feb 14 2012, 08:48) That i...   Feb 14 2012, 09:01
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (kraut @ Feb 14 2012, 07:48) QUOTE ...   Feb 14 2012, 09:07
|- - knutinh   QUOTE (Porcus @ Feb 14 2012, 10:07) Remem...   Feb 14 2012, 09:15
|- - Porcus   QUOTE (knutinh @ Feb 14 2012, 09:15) I wa...   Feb 14 2012, 09:26
- - Woodinville   It is remarkably hard to run such a test, accurate...   Feb 14 2012, 11:01
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