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New record player suggestions?
tinpanalley
post Nov 14 2011, 18:32
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Hello,
My old turntable might finally be dead. I'm wondering what to buy and have no idea so I thought you guys might be able to offer me some suggestions.

Here's some criteria and things I'm looking for...

- I only play jazz, pop vocalists, pop/rock records at home on my stereo system. This isn't for professional use at all.
- I do want the best my money can buy, which means I'm not someone who wants to "just listen to my records" either in any crappy quality. The turntable has to do its job well and in the best way possible (belt drive vs direct drive?)
- I capture my vinyl via a USB Phono Plus
- I just got an Ortofon Super OM10 and 78 I'd like to keep using.
- I would love it if it could be kept to as close to $100 as possible. Is that impossible? Also, is it going to last 25 years like this Pioneer PL300 has?
- Is it better to just get an older record player from a used or online shop?

Any guidance, advice, suggestions, etc would be really appreciated, guys. Thanks!
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pdq
post Nov 14 2011, 19:23
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Search for posts by a user named knowzy. He is a frequent contributer in that area.
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DVDdoug
post Nov 14 2011, 21:11
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I haven't bought a turntable in about 30 years... So take whatever I say with a grain of salt...


Knowzy.com is mostly about USB turntables, but you might find some good information. NeedleDoctor.com has the largest selection of turntables I've seen.

QUOTE
- I would love it if it could be kept to as close to $100 as possible. Is that impossible? Also, is it going to last 25 years like this Pioneer PL300 has?
You're probably going to have to spend around $300 USD if you want something well made (similar to you Pioneer).

There are a lot of cheap plastic turntables for people who just want to play their old records or make quick digital transfers, and there are a lot of absurdly high-end "audiophile" turntables. In the middle, there are DJ turntables.

QUOTE
- Is it better to just get an older record player from a used or online shop?
I assume you can get a bargain, since most people don't use their turntables anymore. But, I don't know if it will last another 25 years.

QUOTE
(belt drive vs direct drive?)
Since you'd like to keep the turntbale for many years, I'd worry about the availability of belts. It seems like the direct drive turntables have generally outlasted the belt drives... Probably because of belts wearing-out and perhaps being unavailable?

The audiophile turntables seem to be mostly belt drive, but direct drive can be very-good!

QUOTE
- I just got an Ortofon Super OM10 and 78 I'd like to keep using.
I believe those are standard 1/2" mount, which is still pretty standard. If the tonearm has a removable headshell with a 1/2" mount, and if you can get an extra headshell, everything should be OK.

This post has been edited by DVDdoug: Nov 14 2011, 21:20
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tinpanalley
post Nov 14 2011, 22:36
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Wow... thanks so much for the awesome help. Great advice.
Is there any hope of fixing what I have wrong with mine?.. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=91797

This record player is SO good and I simply don't have $300 bucks for a new one and I won't buy something that's crap. I'd rather hunt around for a used one. But I'm thinking now maybe this one can be fixed? Only started happening in the past 2 days.

(P.S. The replies about the defect should probably go in the other thread wink.gif )
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RonaldDumsfeld
post Nov 14 2011, 22:41
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I have been buying audio kit on my own account since 1970. So I know about vinyl.

I used to think I was an 'audiophile' so I always bought belt drives from the usual suspects. Linn, Thorens, Rega, Dual and Thorens among others. They all either broke down or came up short in one way or another. Then in 1993 I bought a pair of Technics 1210s. They are still going strong now. In fact given 1/2 hours work they would look as good as new.

So from my perspective it's a no brainer. You need a direct drive table from a reputable manufacturer.

$100 is far short. Save up a bit longer. Buy a 2nd hand pair of Technics. It makes sense. It really does. $200 might do it. Probably a little bit more.

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DVDdoug
post Nov 15 2011, 02:04
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QUOTE
Buy a 2nd hand pair of Technics. It makes sense. It really does. $200 might do it. Probably a little bit more.
I don't think he needs a pair. wink.gif I'd be slightly paranoid of used Technics 1210's because they are often abused by DJs.
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RonaldDumsfeld
post Nov 15 2011, 02:44
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Oops. Silly me. crying.gif

A pair is probably overkill under the circs....... tongue.gif

Although if you had a bit more dosh than the OP it would make sense. Like I said. Twenty years worth of 'audiophile' grade TTs bit the dust. The good old 1210s just keep right on doing their job. No fuss, No bother. Having 2 means that's it for me now. They will see me out. In style. I suspect my grandkids are already starting to eye them up sometimes. rolleyes.gif

It's pretty hard to seriously abuse them too Doug. Really. I've known people to drop them (not mine) to no ill effect. You could conceivably damage the arm I suppose....but even if you did a spare wouldn't cost much - in fact I'd quite like to break mine because it would give me an excuse to buy one of those after market plates and fit something quite flash. Like a Jelco or something. biggrin.gif

I'd rather have a 2nd hand direct drive than a 2nd hand belt drive any day.

Enough already. It's probably not within the OP's budget anyway. You know how it is though? Tidy piece of kit, does it's job, never lets you down, lot of fun over the years. You get attached. It becomes almost family. I feel obliged to recommend them out of a strange sense of loyalty. wink.gif
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viktor
post Nov 15 2011, 12:04
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QUOTE (tinpanalley)
- I do want the best my money can buy, which means I'm not someone who wants to "just listen to my records" either in any crappy quality. The turntable has to do its job well and in the best way possible (belt drive vs direct drive?)

that's outta question. direct drive. they are much more responsive and accurate than the "good old" belt drives.

QUOTE (tinpanalley)
- I would love it if it could be kept to as close to $100 as possible. Is that impossible?

for a quality turntable? yes. i think i'd go for a reloop rp-1000 if i were you. but that's still about 200$. i really discourage you from going lower than this.

QUOTE (tinpanalley)
Also, is it going to last 25 years like this Pioneer PL300 has?

well... maybe smile.gif unless you're going to do some heavy scratching and mixing performance with it, it shouldn't wear out too soon IMHO. and this latter thing is why i also discourage you from buying 2nd hand turntables - you can never know what have already happened to it.

This post has been edited by viktor: Nov 15 2011, 12:11
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kraut
post Nov 15 2011, 16:47
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QUOTE
I'd rather have a 2nd hand direct drive than a 2nd hand belt drive any day.


Everybody wants to believe what he wants to believe. The only DD I ever tried was a Technics 1800 - a noisy piece of junk.
I have three TT's currently still in operation, one belt drive transcriptors hydraulik reference that I own since 1969, and two thorens td 125, also beltdrive and working perfectly, after just a cleanup job.
Direct drive is for sissies.

And no, you can't get a decent TT for 100$. Even considering a technics 1210 (sacrilege), a good used one is at least over 200$.

Actually - I am lying.

I got a technics sl 10 at a second hand store including the the other mini components for $ 9.50.
The technics is a DD with tangential arm, and came with the original technics cartridge 310 mc. That player is the pinnacle of convenience, works like a charm, and is my preferred player.
Unfortunate however - the closed compartment lets the stylus attract dirt like a vacuum cleaner, even on records I cleaned wet on the table before playing.
But quality wise I have to see better yet.
That player however usually goes for over 200$ on ebay.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Technics-turntable-...=item256820e6b8


This post has been edited by kraut: Nov 15 2011, 16:58
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viktor
post Nov 15 2011, 16:51
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QUOTE (kraut @ Nov 15 2011, 16:47) *
QUOTE
I'd rather have a 2nd hand direct drive than a 2nd hand belt drive any day.


Everybody wants to believe what he wants to believe. The only DD I ever tried was a Technics 1800 - a noisy piece of junk.
I have three TT's currently still in operation, one belt drive transcriptors hydraulik reference that I own since 1969, and two thorens td 125, also beltdrive and working perfectly, after just a cleanup job.
Direct drive is for sissies.

And no, you can't get a decent TT for 100$. Even considering a technics 1210 (sacrilege), a good used one is at least over 200$.


and how is the drive related to noise? it depends on the pickup, not on the rotation method... the drive's only important for keeping the tempo accurate and such. and it's not for "sissies". touch the side of the plate (or the label of the vinyl) for a second, then release it, and just listen how fast it catches up for a belt drive and a direct drive. there's a significant difference.

This post has been edited by viktor: Nov 15 2011, 16:52
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kraut
post Nov 15 2011, 17:07
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QUOTE
and how is the drive related to noise? it depends on the pickup, not on the rotation method


Which only goes to show how utterly clueless you are when it come to TT.
How the fuck do you think motor noise or bearing noise gets into the pickup? Santy Clause?
With belt drive the belt decouples the motor from the platter, while in direct drive any noise gets directly transferred from the platter into the cartridge via the record.
While in belt drive you only have to contend with the bearing noise, DD not optimally and perfectly done will add two noise sources. And the 1800 I tried was just awful.
The SL 10 however is perfect and quiet.
So, yes, good DD can be had.
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viktor
post Nov 15 2011, 17:09
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QUOTE (kraut @ Nov 15 2011, 17:07) *
How the fuck do you think motor noise or bearing noise gets into the pickup? Santy Clause?

where did i said anything like that, hm?
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cliveb
post Nov 15 2011, 19:09
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QUOTE (viktor @ Nov 15 2011, 11:04) *
that's outta question. direct drive. they are much more responsive and accurate than the "good old" belt drives.
...
i think i'd go for a reloop rp-1000 if i were you.

Which happens to be belt drive, which is a little at odds with your previous statement. But no matter, it could be a decent TT. Or maybe not, considering that it's clearly a DJ type device.

This thread seems to have descended into a belt v direct drive slanging match. That's silly. It's possible to build good and bad turntables using direct or belt drive. Neither technology is intrinsically better.
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viktor
post Nov 15 2011, 19:21
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QUOTE (cliveb @ Nov 15 2011, 19:09) *
QUOTE (viktor @ Nov 15 2011, 11:04) *
that's outta question. direct drive. they are much more responsive and accurate than the "good old" belt drives.
...
i think i'd go for a reloop rp-1000 if i were you.

Which happens to be belt drive, which is a little at odds with your previous statement. But no matter, it could be a decent TT. Or maybe not, considering that it's clearly a DJ type device.

This thread seems to have descended into a belt v direct drive slanging match. That's silly. It's possible to build good and bad turntables using direct or belt drive. Neither technology is intrinsically better.


sorry for that, my bad! i have a pair of rp-4000s, i thought the whole series has direct drive. then go for the rp-2000 smile.gif
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kraut
post Nov 15 2011, 20:17
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Your question:

QUOTE
where did i said anything like that, hm?


to my answer:

QUOTE
How the fuck do you think motor noise or bearing noise gets into the pickup? Santy Clause?


of which you conveniently forgot to quote the explanatory part:

QUOTE
With belt drive the belt decouples the motor from the platter, while in direct drive any noise gets directly transferred from the platter into the cartridge via the record.


to your previous question:

QUOTE
and how is the drive related to noise? it depends on the pickup, not on the rotation method



Do you see something? A connection maybe? Or a disconnect on your side? Do you need more help?
It helps to quote context.


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kraut
post Nov 15 2011, 20:37
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QUOTE
This thread seems to have descended into a belt v direct drive slanging match


Not really - there are good examples and bad of both. But to execute a good direct drive TT is a lot harder, while one can actually DIY a decent belt drive.

But then again - you will not find a good turntable with a good arm used or new for anything less than several hundred dollars.

I have some experience when it comes to tonearms and their influence on tracking behaviour and sound reproduction. Been playing that game since the mid 1960's.

The worst offenders who seemed to extract the maximum noise and sibilance from any record are in my experience the rega rb 300 arm, while tangential arms (MG 1) and the SME series arms (the still affordable SME II and III) seem to be able to track well with almost any cartridge, be it the denon dl 103/160, the shure V15VXMR, the shure Ultra 500, the Ortofon X3 and X5mc turbo, the goldring 1042 etc.

I also found the arm of the technics sl 10 (tangential) in combination with 310 mc cartridge by technics in the same league with the previous mentioned systems, and could not discern any significant difference between this player you might score for a few hundred dollars complete and the multi hundred to thousand dollar players like the thorens TD 125 with MG 1 airbearing arm or the TD 125 with the SME III arm, both running a denon dl 103.
Worst is actually the Transcriptors hydraulik turntable, who through its construction is very susceptible to transmitting loudspeaker signal and building a nice feedback loop.

This post has been edited by kraut: Nov 15 2011, 20:39
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