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Sansa Fuze vs Ipod Touch 4th Generation for Sound Quality only, Moved from General Audio (TOS #6)
samd1885
post Dec 31 2011, 23:45
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QUOTE (saratoga @ Dec 31 2011, 21:29) *
QUOTE (samd1885 @ Dec 31 2011, 14:36) *
I am going to get the fuze v2 or at least this is the one I am thinking of, not the clip rolleyes.gif The fuze has line out but I have a question, what's the difference between the headphone input and the line out? To me, they both send sound from the mp3 player so I don't understand. Is the lineout a separate cable and not the usual line out (computer) size, is it a special one? Like ipods, i.e unique.
Thanks,
Sam.


http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=92595

QUOTE (samd1885 @ Dec 31 2011, 14:36) *
Also, sorry, may seem simple but what is the maximum output voltage?


Check the section "maximum output" in the link to the clip+ tests I posted above. The FuzeV2 and Clip+ are identical in this regard.


I have checked it, very interesting but I have a question, I am a newbie at this and was wandering what maximum output needs to be to provide decent quality through a hifi amplifier. I will plug it into my amp which are connected to hifi speakers. The clip+1 (Fuze v2 too..) has a max output of 489 mv and the ipod touch 474mv. Will the Fuze be sufficient for a hifi amp? What is needed. Sorry, I don't understand it's importance, all help would be much appreciated,
thanks,
Sam.
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saratoga
post Jan 1 2012, 00:09
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QUOTE (samd1885 @ Dec 31 2011, 17:45) *
I have checked it, very interesting but I have a question, I am a newbie at this and was wandering what maximum output needs to be to provide decent quality through a hifi amplifier.


It doesn't really matter that much in practice, but a couple hundred mV should be fine. You can always use line out on a fuze which should work fine as well.
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samd1885
post Jan 1 2012, 00:24
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And the line out bypasses the Fuze's amp and utilizes the hifi's amp, making it sound much better. Thank you! Sudden clarity in my mind from a hell of a lot of distortion. So now all I need to do is find a line out cable that I could buy for the fuze when I buy them together. Great, does this make the fuze merely a data storage then by using line out as it bypasses the fuze's amp?

This post has been edited by db1989: Jan 1 2012, 15:56
Reason for edit: removing unnecessary full quote of above post. Please note this!
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saratoga
post Jan 1 2012, 00:37
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QUOTE (samd1885 @ Dec 31 2011, 18:24) *
And the line out bypasses the Fuze's amp and utilizes the hifi's amp, making it sound much better.


Its not going to impact quality.

QUOTE (samd1885 @ Dec 31 2011, 18:24) *
Great, does this make the fuze merely a data storage then by using line out as it bypasses the fuze's amp?


Aside from the differences discussed in the thread I linked, it doesn't really do much else difference for you.
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samd1885
post Jan 1 2012, 00:45
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In the forum you posted, most people said it would be unprocessed audio allowing it to be processed by the hifi amp rather than the player. Therefore I thought it would sound better going through a 300 amp than going through a 30 fuze too. I am a little confused sorry. How would I connect the lineout to the hifi if it didn't have a direct input, would using RCA audio cable or would that be worse quality? If I had an AUX should it provide beneficial audio over the RCA.

This post has been edited by db1989: Jan 1 2012, 15:56
Reason for edit: see post #28
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saratoga
post Jan 1 2012, 00:52
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QUOTE (samd1885 @ Dec 31 2011, 18:45) *
Therefore I thought it would sound better going through a 300 amp than going through a 30 fuze too. I am a little confused sorry.


You're not going to improve anything. We're talking about the output of an mp3 player. This is so trivially good enough that improvement is essentially impossible.

QUOTE (samd1885 @ Dec 31 2011, 18:45) *
How would I connect the lineout to the hifi if it didn't have a direct input, would using RCA audio cable or would that be worse quality? If I had an AUX should it provide beneficial audio over the RCA.


Figure out what connectors your stereo has, then buy something that can connect to either of the ports on the mp3 player. AUX/RCA/etc are all fine.
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samd1885
post Jan 1 2012, 01:05
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Ok, i've been reading some more and I have one last question, with AUX input from line out, does the amplifier process the audio or is it the fuze. I understand that the fuze already has amazingly clear output of audio but I was just wandering as I can choose between RCA from the headphone out or AUX from the lineout.

This post has been edited by db1989: Jan 1 2012, 15:56
Reason for edit: see post #28
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saratoga
post Jan 1 2012, 01:38
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QUOTE (samd1885 @ Dec 31 2011, 19:05) *
Ok, i've been reading some more and I have one last question, with AUX input from line out, does the amplifier process the audio or is it the fuze.


Theres an amplifier in fuze. If you use headphones, its the only one. If you use amplified speakers, theres another before the speakers. Amplifiers don't really process sound, they just make it louder.
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samd1885
post Jan 1 2012, 13:27
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Ah, ok thanks, so if I connect it to my CD player instead which is in turn connected to my amp, then would the CD player process the sound?

This post has been edited by db1989: Jan 1 2012, 15:56
Reason for edit: see post #28
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Soap
post Jan 1 2012, 13:42
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QUOTE (samd1885 @ Jan 1 2012, 07:27) *
Ah, ok thanks, so if I connect it to my CD player instead which is in turn connected to my amp, then would the CD player process the sound?


What model CD player do you have which has a line-in?


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samd1885
post Jan 1 2012, 22:41
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http://www.hyperfi.co.uk/marantz-cd6003-pl...tock-p-892.html
The Marantz CD6003.
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Soap
post Jan 1 2012, 23:29
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QUOTE (samd1885 @ Jan 1 2012, 16:41) *

You sure about that?
http://marantz.co.uk/uk/Products/Pages/Pro...roductId=CD6003


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samd1885
post Jan 1 2012, 23:37
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QUOTE (Soap @ Jan 1 2012, 22:29) *


Not really, will the USB in have full audio quality from lineout? I certainly have USB, it's a hard place to look because it is in a closed cabinet.
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Soap
post Jan 1 2012, 23:41
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QUOTE (samd1885 @ Jan 1 2012, 17:37) *
Not really, will the USB in have full audio quality from lineout? I certainly have USB, it's a hard place to look because it is in a closed cabinet.


USB audio is a port for plugging in your iPod (but not iPhone according to the product page). It transfers the audio digitally over USB and (assumedly) uses the CD DAC if you're using the Marantz's analog outputs and passes through if you're using the Marantz's digital out.

This is a completely different thing than the analog line-level connections discussed elsewhere in this thread.


This post has been edited by Soap: Jan 1 2012, 23:41


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samd1885
post Jan 2 2012, 02:43
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QUOTE (Soap @ Jan 1 2012, 22:41) *
QUOTE (samd1885 @ Jan 1 2012, 17:37) *
Not really, will the USB in have full audio quality from lineout? I certainly have USB, it's a hard place to look because it is in a closed cabinet.


USB audio is a port for plugging in your iPod (but not iPhone according to the product page). It transfers the audio digitally over USB and (assumedly) uses the CD DAC if you're using the Marantz's analog outputs and passes through if you're using the Marantz's digital out.

This is a completely different thing than the analog line-level connections discussed elsewhere in this thread.


I'm fairly confused, the usb can also be used for the fuze right? It has a line out (from fuze) to usb cable which I assumed I could plug in a work fine, much like the ipod. Which is the best way for me to play audio files from a fuze on my hifi then? Best in terms of quality of sound etc... Sorry, please help, thanks.
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andy o
post Jan 2 2012, 02:55
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That's exactly one of the things I was talking about before in this thread. That USB connection is one of the advantages of iPods. It is not meant to be used with the Fuze.

Some of these components that have USB iPod inputs though, can read MP3, WMA and/or AAC files from a usb stick/disk. If the Fuze can be read as a disk, it might work only for those types of files (I haven't seen one that does any lossless codec). Nothing is guaranteed unless you stick with the explicit specifications of your device.
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samd1885
post Jan 2 2012, 03:21
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QUOTE (andy o @ Jan 2 2012, 01:55) *
That's exactly one of the things I was talking about before in this thread. That USB connection is one of the advantages of iPods. It is not meant to be used with the Fuze.

Some of these components that have USB iPod inputs though, can read MP3, WMA and/or AAC files from a usb stick/disk. If the Fuze can be read as a disk, it might work only for those types of files (I haven't seen one that does any lossless codec). Nothing is guaranteed unless you stick with the explicit specifications of your device.


Ah, ok, sorry, I see. It says it can read MP3, WMA etc... I guess WMA Lossless or MP3HD (Lossless) which are both compatible may work however it doesn't say it supports flac so I might have to go with MP3 or WMA lossless if I wanted lossless (Which I do). Should the audio of the usb be the same as from RCA or AUX?
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Soap
post Jan 2 2012, 04:05
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QUOTE (samd1885 @ Jan 1 2012, 21:21) *
Ah, ok, sorry, I see. It says it can read MP3, WMA etc... I guess WMA Lossless or MP3HD (Lossless) which are both compatible may work however it doesn't say it supports flac so I might have to go with MP3 or WMA lossless if I wanted lossless (Which I do). Should the audio of the usb be the same as from RCA or AUX?

No, it says it can read WMA / MP3 / AAC off of CDs

And even that does not mean WMA lossless or MP3HD.

It might play those off of USB (as was mentioned above) but that is not explicitly stated in the specs. WMA / MP3 / AAC are mentioned under "CD compatibility".

I understand you are new at this, but many of these replies are due to you not reading completely.



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MichaelW
post Jan 2 2012, 04:07
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London to a brick, if it says "MP3" or "WMA" it means the lossy versions. Without reasonably doubt, if it could accept lossless files it would state that, as it's selling to the bottom end of the audiophile market.
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Soap
post Jan 2 2012, 04:42
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QUOTE (samd1885 @ Jan 1 2012, 21:21) *
Should the audio of the usb be the same as from RCA or AUX?


No. USB is a digital "pipe". RCA is a connector type. AUX is an input label.

AUX is most likely an analog line-level input.
RCA is used for just about anything.

USB is never analog.

iPods (and only iPods at this time?) can transmit decoded audio digitally over USB.

iPods can also mount like an external hard drive and transmit undecoded audio files over USB. Sandisk players (and even thumb drives) can do this as well.

The CD player in question claims to play from iPods over USB. It does not claim to play from UMS / MSC (USB Mass Storage / Mass Storage Class) devices like dumb thumb drives and Sandisk players in USB mode. But I'm not saying it doesn't. It would be an easy test.





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andy o
post Jan 2 2012, 07:37
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I'm not even sure why it's necessary or even preferable to connect the player to the CD player. With that kind of money one could have a nice modern input-friendly receiver. But in any case, as per the original question of this thread (except for the "sound quality only" part), I would say no contest; for all that's been discussed so far, iPod Touch 4 wins IMO. The thing is that it's pricier, but if those two players are only ones being considered, I see practically no advantage to the Fuze. Again, maybe if one is anti-Apple, a Samsung Galaxy player could be a much better choice.

QUOTE (Soap @ Jan 1 2012, 19:42) *
iPods can also mount like an external hard drive and transmit undecoded audio files over USB.

I'm pretty sure iOS devices, at least the latest ones, don't do this. Are you sure other iPods do?
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andy o
post Jan 2 2012, 07:41
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Oh, what the hell, I'll just give the easy answer. The iPod Touch 4, connected via USB to that CD player, will be able to play lossless ALAC, decoded and transmitted digitally. THAT's what you want, but what people here are telling you, is that there are more economical or simpler ways to achieve similar sound.
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samd1885
post Jan 2 2012, 11:45
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QUOTE (Soap @ Jan 2 2012, 03:05) *
QUOTE (samd1885 @ Jan 1 2012, 21:21) *
Ah, ok, sorry, I see. It says it can read MP3, WMA etc... I guess WMA Lossless or MP3HD (Lossless) which are both compatible may work however it doesn't say it supports flac so I might have to go with MP3 or WMA lossless if I wanted lossless (Which I do). Should the audio of the usb be the same as from RCA or AUX?

No, it says it can read WMA / MP3 / AAC off of CDs

And even that does not mean WMA lossless or MP3HD.

It might play those off of USB (as was mentioned above) but that is not explicitly stated in the specs. WMA / MP3 / AAC are mentioned under "CD compatibility".

I understand you are new at this, but many of these replies are due to you not reading completely.


I read that MP3HD was compatible with MP3 players and is works with all devices that are compatible with MP3. Equally, if it could play that audio format through CD then I didn't see why it couldn't play them through other means, sorry if I annoyed you.
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samd1885
post Jan 2 2012, 11:58
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QUOTE (andy o @ Jan 2 2012, 06:41) *
Oh, what the hell, I'll just give the easy answer. The iPod Touch 4, connected via USB to that CD player, will be able to play lossless ALAC, decoded and transmitted digitally. THAT's what you want, but what people here are telling you, is that there are more economical or simpler ways to achieve similar sound.


Soap,
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/sansa-clip-measured.html was posted earlier, the Fuze V2 has the same components as the clip+, it, from it's test, show that the clip+ is a very similarly audio capable player, winning in some audible tests and losing in others but it's rather close. You said it could player ALAC lossless decoded and transmitted digitally (The Ipod), but I was wandering what the difference between decoded audio digitally transmitted over USB and transmitting undecoded audio files over usb and play them on the hifi (assuming they will even if they may not because we don't know yet). You also said "USB is a digital "pipe". RCA is a connector type. AUX is an input label", ok, I understand they are different but they are all separate inputs on my hifi, would going through AUX or RCA give worse quality sound from my lineout on my fuze? Sorry.
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lvqcl
post Jan 2 2012, 12:01
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QUOTE
I read that MP3HD was compatible with MP3 players and is works with all devices that are compatible with MP3

Yes, but these devices can read only lossy part of a MP3HD file.

QUOTE
I didn't see why it couldn't play them through other means

Because it doesn't know about FAT/NTFS/... filesystems and cannot read files from USB sticks? Just a guess.
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