Violinists cannot differentiate between Stradivarius and new violins, was: "golden ears" |
Violinists cannot differentiate between Stradivarius and new violins, was: "golden ears" |
Jan 3 2012, 07:03
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#1
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Group: Members Posts: 215 Joined: 24-November 10 Member No.: 85965 |
not so golden after all:
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocke...s-and-new-ones/ QUOTE What’s more, no one has tested whether violinists themselves can truly pick up the supposedly distinctive sound of a Strad. The common wisdom is that they can, but Fritz and Curtin showed that this isn’t true. “Many people were convinced that as soon as you play an old violin, you can feel that it’s old, it’s been played a lot, and it has a special sound quality,” says Fritz. “People who took part in the experiment said it was the experience of a lifetime when we told them the results. They were fully convinced they could tell the difference, and they couldn’t.” Having read the article first in the German "der spiegel", I do not have to wait for the usual excuse of those that will maintain those listening tests were done wrong, the wrong violins were chosen etc.etc., all the usual bull those of the golden ear persuasion come up with to not have to accept test results that speak counter to their religion that "everything influences sound and everything is audible". QUOTE The test was a true “double-blind” one, as neither the players nor the people who gave them the violins had any way of knowing which instrument was which. The room was dimly lit. The players were wearing goggles so they couldn’t see properly. The instruments had dabs of perfume on the chinrests that blocked out any distinctive smells. And even though Fritz and Curtin knew which the identities of the six violins, they only passed the instruments to the players via other researchers, who were hidden by screens, wearing their own goggles, and quite literally in the dark. It seems to me reading through the article, that just about everything had been done to eliminate bias by double blind testing. QUOTE There are some issues with the study. Curtin, being a maker of new violins, has an obvious bias, but the double-blind design should have prevented that from affecting the results. The sample size – six violins and 21 players – is fairly small, but as large as can be expected when dealing with rare and incredibly expensive objects. There might also other variables that could affect the players’ perceptions – perhaps, for example, they might feel differently in rooms with different acoustics.
This post has been edited by kraut: Jan 3 2012, 07:08 |
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Jan 4 2012, 17:50
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#2
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 15-March 07 Member No.: 41501 |
IIRC one was three days old.
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kraut Violinists cannot differentiate between Stradivarius and new violins Jan 3 2012, 07:03
hlloyge Thank you for interesting read - I was, too, for s... Jan 3 2012, 07:57
hawkeye_p QUOTE (kraut @ Jan 3 2012, 08:03) Having ... Jan 3 2012, 09:08
botface Am I missing something here? As I read it the test... Jan 3 2012, 13:17
dhromed Did you expect a grand finale where the violinists... Jan 3 2012, 13:36
db1989 QUOTE (dhromed @ Jan 3 2012, 12:36) Did y... Jan 3 2012, 15:25
kraut QUOTE As I read it the test shows that 21 violinis... Jan 3 2012, 15:15
botface QUOTE (kraut @ Jan 3 2012, 15:15) QUOTE A... Jan 3 2012, 16:33
Gumboot I seem to be having some pretty serious reading co... Jan 5 2012, 12:10
Porcus Next task: Make the new violins look old, so peopl... Jan 3 2012, 15:25
Takla I think it's worth noting that the modern inst... Jan 3 2012, 17:57
Jebus QUOTE (Takla @ Jan 3 2012, 09:57) I think... Jan 3 2012, 19:22
Takla QUOTE (Jebus @ Jan 3 2012, 18:22) Yes, an... Jan 3 2012, 20:28
bred I've never heard a Stradivarius.
But the soun... Jan 3 2012, 18:55
zipr Here's another story on it, which includes aud... Jan 3 2012, 19:14
Carledwards The biggest factor in how violins sound is who is ... Jan 3 2012, 20:08
bred QUOTE (zipr @ Jan 3 2012, 19:14) Here... Jan 3 2012, 21:34
andy o The reasonable assumption is that the instrument t... Jan 3 2012, 21:51
MichaelW This test is another piece of evidence that there ... Jan 3 2012, 22:39
Takla I didn't see any evidence that there isn't... Jan 4 2012, 00:00
MichaelW I quite agree, Takla. I thought that was what I wa... Jan 4 2012, 00:41
Takla QUOTE (MichaelW @ Jan 3 2012, 23:41) I qu... Jan 4 2012, 01:13
kraut QUOTE I'd noticed that thread had originally b... Jan 4 2012, 02:00
Takla QUOTE (kraut @ Jan 4 2012, 01:00) I don... Jan 4 2012, 02:11
andy o QUOTE (Takla @ Jan 3 2012, 17:11) But the... Jan 4 2012, 04:18
MichaelW QUOTE (andy o @ Jan 4 2012, 16:18) QUOTE ... Jan 4 2012, 08:06
kawaiigardiner QUOTE (zipr @ Jan 4 2012, 07:14) Here... Jan 4 2012, 07:11
DonP So in the study were the new instruments brand new... Jan 4 2012, 15:25
MichaelW @gumboot, I'd been wondering about that, too. ... Jan 5 2012, 15:55
MichaelW One reason why this test, and the few others like ... Jan 7 2012, 02:27
Gumboot I think the test, or the write-up cited, fails bec... Jan 7 2012, 11:46
Kees de Visser QUOTE (MichaelW @ Jan 7 2012, 03:27) Plac... Jan 7 2012, 13:03
Porcus More references at http://www.sciencedaily.com/rel... Jan 7 2012, 15:36
godrick Has anyone posting here actually read the study it... Jan 8 2012, 22:23
Gumboot QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 8 2012, 21:23) but s... Jan 9 2012, 00:45
andy o QUOTE (Gumboot @ Jan 8 2012, 15:45) QUOTE... Jan 9 2012, 05:54
Gumboot QUOTE (andy o @ Jan 9 2012, 04:54) Well t... Jan 9 2012, 08:18
Nessuno A hopefully interesting contribution to this threa... Jan 10 2012, 22:27
godrick We seem to be caught in a certain cycle.... http:... Jan 9 2012, 03:45
godrick ...so Zimmerman's implication is that the test... Jan 10 2012, 23:09
Gumboot QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 10 2012, 22:09) ...s... Jan 10 2012, 23:46
Takla QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 10 2012, 22:09) ...s... Jan 11 2012, 00:42
Porcus QUOTE (Takla @ Jan 11 2012, 00:42) Why ca... Jan 11 2012, 01:20
DVDdoug QUOTE (Porcus @ Jan 10 2012, 16:20) Becau... Jan 11 2012, 01:46

Porcus QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jan 11 2012, 01:46) QUOT... Jan 11 2012, 02:11

MichaelW QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jan 11 2012, 13:46) I do... Jan 11 2012, 02:11
Takla QUOTE (Porcus @ Jan 11 2012, 00:20) QUOTE... Jan 11 2012, 02:30
Porcus QUOTE (Takla @ Jan 11 2012, 02:30) When p... Jan 11 2012, 02:58
mzil QUOTE (Takla @ Jan 11 2012, 00:42) I did ... Jan 11 2012, 03:35

Porcus QUOTE (mzil @ Jan 11 2012, 03:35) QUOTE (... Jan 11 2012, 09:07

Kees de Visser QUOTE (mzil @ Jan 11 2012, 04:35) Do you ... Jan 11 2012, 09:14


Porcus QUOTE (Kees de Visser @ Jan 11 2012, 09:1... Jan 11 2012, 17:06

Gumboot It's how they make their money, isn't it. ... Jan 11 2012, 09:17

Porcus QUOTE (Gumboot @ Jan 11 2012, 09:17) It... Jan 11 2012, 10:43

andy o QUOTE (Gumboot @ Jan 11 2012, 00:17) It... Jan 11 2012, 17:25
godrick QUOTE (Takla @ Jan 11 2012, 03:30) I did ... Jan 11 2012, 15:31
Takla QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 11 2012, 14:31) I do... Jan 11 2012, 15:53
andy o The evidence contradicts Zimmerman, no matter how ... Jan 11 2012, 00:40
andy o And he was being kind of a condescending dick to h... Jan 11 2012, 00:47
godrick I am a bit surprised anyone took exception to my p... Jan 11 2012, 15:26
Gumboot QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 11 2012, 14:26) Zimm... Jan 11 2012, 23:03
mzil Takla, I'm still curious to hear from you dire... Jan 11 2012, 16:45
Takla QUOTE (mzil @ Jan 11 2012, 15:45) Takla, ... Jan 11 2012, 22:23
mzil ^Oh, OK. Thanks. I had hoped you might be able to... Jan 11 2012, 22:56
db1989 Totally legitimate analogy, A+++, would read again... Jan 11 2012, 23:08
Gumboot QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 11 2012, 22:08) Total... Jan 11 2012, 23:14
Takla QUOTE (Gumboot @ Jan 11 2012, 22:14) Is t... Jan 11 2012, 23:48
godrick Takla, you continue to miss my point, so I take it... Jan 12 2012, 05:07
Gumboot QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 12 2012, 04:07) I am... Jan 12 2012, 09:14
Porcus QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 12 2012, 05:07) I am... Jan 12 2012, 19:44
godrick So once one learns how to play on a certain instru... Jan 12 2012, 18:09
botface QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 12 2012, 18:09) This... Jan 12 2012, 19:39
Gumboot QUOTE (godrick @ Jan 12 2012, 17:09) So o... Jan 12 2012, 22:39
db1989 QUOTE (Gumboot @ Jan 12 2012, 21:39) QUOT... Jan 12 2012, 22:57
Gumboot QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 12 2012, 21:57) Are y... Jan 12 2012, 23:10
db1989 My bad—I’m tired too many words hurt poor brain. Jan 12 2012, 23:19
knutinh If it takes one year of practice to appreciate the... May 16 2012, 11:09
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (knutinh @ May 16 2012, 06:09) If i... May 16 2012, 13:14

knutinh QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ May 16 2012, 14... May 18 2012, 10:58
DonP QUOTE (knutinh @ May 16 2012, 06:09) If i... May 16 2012, 14:33
DVDdoug QUOTE (DonP @ May 16 2012, 06:33) Do Stra... May 17 2012, 21:34

DonP QUOTE (DVDdoug @ May 17 2012, 16:34) You ... May 18 2012, 03:10
knutinh QUOTE (DonP @ May 16 2012, 15:33) Do Stra... May 18 2012, 10:27
Porcus Well, if violinists cannot identify the Stradivari... May 25 2012, 16:22
Porcus QUOTE (Porcus @ May 25 2012, 16:22) Well,... Nov 19 2012, 16:58
mzil ^That was interesting.
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To all: See if you can... May 25 2012, 17:51![]() ![]() |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 22nd May 2013 - 12:33 |