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Jplay - just another scam? YES IT IS!
phofman
post May 30 2013, 17:58
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QUOTE (Propheticus @ May 30 2013, 13:16) *
It could do both, use a built in ramdisk to buffer raw read input AND buffer the decoded stream to the normal output path (ASIO) like any other ASIO capable player does.


Sorry for my misleading formulation. I am talking about READING samples via ASIO where jplay acts as a "virtual" ASIO driver.
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Willakan
post Jun 19 2013, 10:43
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http://www.audiostream.com/content/jplay-r...nds-open-letter

Well, this thread certainly seems to have done some good raising awareness, even if the dyed-in-the-wool audiophiles will still lap up absolutely anything they are told about the insides of these mystical things we call computers.
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sabrehagen
post Jul 12 2013, 00:00
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This has got to be one of my favourite posts of all time. I didn't know whether to be floored or laugh hysterically when I read it. My reaction was a mixture of both.

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread....3315#post423315
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db1989
post Jul 12 2013, 00:12
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Shooting fish in a barrel, etc.

The same guy:
QUOTE
Be good to understand why I am hearing such a big difference in sound
I love* how it never even crosses their minds as a possibility that they might not actually be hearing these fanciful effects. Nope, they’re infallible, and their perceptions are sacrosanct. So they must find ways to justify them, however hard said explanations fly in the face of physics and, let’s be honest, common sense.

*word used extremely sarcastically

This post has been edited by db1989: Jul 12 2013, 00:15
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Hotsoup
post Jul 12 2013, 05:34
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QUOTE

What?? blink.gif Will there be audiophile routers next?
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dhromed
post Jul 12 2013, 09:49
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QUOTE (Hotsoup @ Jul 12 2013, 06:34) *
What?? blink.gif Will there be audiophile routers next?


Just imagine any ol' random thing.

SSD sounds better than HD.

ramdisk in DDR5 sounds better than DDR3

More ram allows for better expression of lower frequencies.

Uranium drivers.
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probedb
post Jul 12 2013, 13:34
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QUOTE (dhromed @ Jul 12 2013, 09:49) *
SSD sounds better than HD.


Didn't someone do some 'tests' and claimed that it also depended where on the HDD the files were as to how good it sounded? Or something equally bizarre.
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Rotareneg
post Jul 12 2013, 16:48
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I think a big issue here is that people don't realize that audio cables oriented to magnetic north and south sound better than east and west, which is probably a major cause of failures when blind testing decent audiophile gear.
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andy o
post Jul 12 2013, 16:55
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Yeah, so 2013 won't be a good year to test your cables, people! The solar cycle is getting unpredictable. I mean, magnetshowdotheywork, am I right?
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Hotsoup
post Jul 12 2013, 17:17
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I wonder if MythBusters could do an episode on audiophile tweaks. They could easily do an entire two-part special.
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Willakan
post Jul 12 2013, 17:27
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QUOTE (probedb @ Jul 12 2013, 13:34) *
QUOTE (dhromed @ Jul 12 2013, 09:49) *
SSD sounds better than HD.


Didn't someone do some 'tests' and claimed that it also depended where on the HDD the files were as to how good it sounded? Or something equally bizarre.


That would be "The Absolute Sound", with their absolutely risible article on computer audio.
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washu
post Jul 12 2013, 20:01
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QUOTE (Hotsoup @ Jul 12 2013, 12:17) *
I wonder if MythBusters could do an episode on audiophile tweaks. They could easily do an entire two-part special.


I saw a talk not too long ago where Adam said he wanted to do exactly that. He claimed the producers don't think they could make an interesting show out of the topic so they can't do it.
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Wombat
post Jul 12 2013, 20:08
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QUOTE (washu @ Jul 12 2013, 21:01) *
I saw a talk not too long ago where Adam said he wanted to do exactly that. He claimed the producers don't think they could make an interesting show out of the topic so they can't do it.

To bad! They could have nice explosions with audiophile 2-way speakers that can indeed take advantage of more then 16bit exactly in the moment they bust in 1000 pieces smile.gif
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db1989
post Jul 12 2013, 20:23
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Pff, so they can, as I found out while quickly checking the terminology in my previous post here, literally shoot fish in a barrel to check that myth, but they can’t address the blatant myths of a pervasive subculture full of some of the worst mumbo-jumbo and most uninformed people on Earth?

Nice to have further confirmation that the world is done for if it continues to focus only on whatever sentationalist nonsenses the masses want. Flagrant disregard of the most basic animal welfare in order to hawk advertising minutes to braying consumers, for instance. Rubbish like this is what the media want people to want. Said media are birds of a feather with those selling crap like ‘audiophile’ gear, after all. It’s a tangled web.

This post has been edited by db1989: Jul 12 2013, 20:59
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Porcus
post Jul 12 2013, 20:45
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QUOTE (Hotsoup @ Jul 12 2013, 06:34) *
QUOTE

What?? blink.gif Will there be audiophile routers next?


Well, there might be another CAT or two, and then it could escalate ... possibly up to the level where some audio forum on the net will flow over with cat avatars.


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mudlord
post Jul 13 2013, 14:30
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QUOTE
JPLAY uses special ultra low-latency RAM to store music samples and massively pre-queues them so the sound driver can access them faster


What the hell.
"Ultra low-latency".....heh
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greynol
post Jul 13 2013, 14:36
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I didn't know hardware comes with your purchase.

This post has been edited by greynol: Jul 13 2013, 14:37


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skamp
post Jul 13 2013, 14:40
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Maybe it comes with an incantation to make your existing RAM faster.


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dhromed
post Jul 13 2013, 16:23
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QUOTE (greynol @ Jul 13 2013, 15:36) *
I didn't know hardware comes with your purchase.


There's plenty of packing room inside jplays empty black box.
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Propheticus
post Jul 13 2013, 23:14
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The only faster mem available would be the CPU cache and as far as I know programs (not even the OS) can directly write into this. Caching is handled by the CPU itself.

This post has been edited by Propheticus: Jul 13 2013, 23:14
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Nessuno
post Jul 14 2013, 01:07
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QUOTE (Propheticus @ Jul 14 2013, 00:14) *
The only faster mem available would be the CPU cache and as far as I know programs (not even the OS) can directly write into this. Caching is handled by the CPU itself.

Did you mean "can't directly write", right?

Well, maybe knowing the CPU caching strategy a skilled programmer could try some tricks to keep as much code as possible into cache, but this would be no deterministic, expecially under a preemptive multitasking OS (*) and all the more the program itself should be written in assembly, or at least the programmer should know his compiler's code generation strategies and optimizations, making everything compiler vendor, version and even switches dependent. Of course all this would be targeted to a very specific CPU core.
Definitely not feasible.

(*) yes, I know, JPlay claims to turn off as much system services and background processes: nope! The only strategy that could make sense it this respect wold be a pure MS-DOS version, booting the PC from a diskette! biggrin.gif


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Propheticus
post Jul 14 2013, 05:54
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Eh yes, meant can't -- of course.
Like you said, you'd need to interact on machine code (assembly) level... not on (windows) API/driver level.
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db1989
post Jul 14 2013, 10:50
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If I am not mistaken, and excuse me for not going to the official JPLAY compound to check, I believe there is indeed a version that tries to monopolise the cache for itself and links this to quality using the usual utter nonsense.

The mention of low-latency RAM is presumably just a disengenuous reference to normal RAM and how modern examples have low latency simply by virtue of the ever-present shift towards faster speeds. Never mind that playing from RAM is neither necessary nor sufficient for a competent audio player to reproduce a signal without butchering it, something that is easy in many other ways but not this one. Besides that, the speed of that RAM will make precisely no difference as long as the programmer is not an idiot and has proper strategies for buffering and so forth. Those do not require advanced techniques and certainly do not justify a payment of 99 EUR, just like everything else JPLAY does/claims to do.
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spoon
post Jul 14 2013, 11:51
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A modern processor can transfer around 25GB/second - a lossless audio stream is what 176KB / sec, so the processer + memory are 142,000x faster than need to be....that is not enough?


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Propheticus
post Jul 14 2013, 18:14
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It is, plenty fast. We already came to the conclusion jPlay is a scam. Just picking apart the bogus claims of how this black box supposedly operates. Even if it could do what they say it does, it probably wouldn't matter.

Seems like an example of throwing in enough random technical terms so that half tech-savvy people recognize these and believe it's plausible that it works but is far too complex for them to comprehend. The programmer is a pro after all... pro at deceit that is.

The fact it hogs so much system resources (which shouldn't be needed for something trivial as audio is for modern systems these days) reminds me of bogus programs that have a fake progress bar. Normally these programs would take only a few seconds to perform the simple operation they performed. To mask the fact what they do is trivial, they add a progress bar that would load in half a minute to give the user the impression the program was actually doing a lot. Mostly seen in a variety of system performance boosting apps and reg cleaners which use readily available windows functions and often don't work (reg cleaning is useless for instance).

This post has been edited by Propheticus: Jul 14 2013, 18:21
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