Cleaning up 78 transfers Options

[tinpanalley]

Hi all,
I'm taking a 78 recording (and several others that I'm transferring) and trying to clean it up. I'm capturing the audio with Audacity at 32-bit IEEE float, as a stereo recording from a 78 stylus on my turntable at 45 then changing the speed, finishing it off with inverting the RIAA curve.
My question is about cleaning up from this point forward understanding of course that one method simply won't work in every case.

I have Audacity, Sound Forge, DeNoise and ClickRepair. I've tried following this to a certain degree but I have no way of knowing if there's something I'm missing, if it's out of date, if there's a better way, etc. Mastering, I'm ok with. It's just the cleaning part I want to know with the aim of archiving these transfers.

Any thoughts?

[DVDdoug]

I'm doing some Capitol 78s from the 40's. What curve do I apply for those?

I just don't think it's that critical (or optimal) to find the original EQ curve. I think you'll get the best results by ear.

What's your actual goal? Do you want the best sound (I'd be going for the best sound to my ear). Or, do you want to accurately duplicate what someone would have heard on their equipment in the 40s? i.e. What the record producer expected/wanted the listener to hear?

Think about the equipment it was designed to be played on. A mono tube-amp, probably with a single "full range" speaker (no woofers or tweeters). This was before "high fidelity", and I assume the record production goal was to get the best "vocal clarity" on equpment of the day. If you perfectly reverse the recording curve, it's probably not going to sound that good, especially on modern full-range equipment.

The older 78s were played on gramaphones with an acoustic horn used as a speaker/amplifier. If you want to duplicate that sound, your EQ curve would have to simulate the (unknown) acoustics of that set-up. But, that might not give you the best sound. Inverting the recording-curve and playing through a modern more-flat system probably won't give the best results either.

So, I'd start with RIAA and adjust by-ear from there. (I know some people don't like to mess with the original sound, but I sometimes add a little high-end to older dull-sounding LPs, because it sounds better to me than the "correct" RIAA equalization.)

This post has been edited by DVDdoug: Mar 7 2012, 23:55

[tinpanalley]

So, I'd start with RIAA and adjust by-ear from there. (I know some people don't like to mess with the original sound, but I sometimes add a little high-end to older dull-sounding LPs, because it sounds better to me than the "correct" RIAA equalization.)

I've been reading for about 2 hours about all this and about curves (still not understanding how they're applied to an audio capture of a 78) and I think you're 100% correct. I think that...
a) trying to replicate what a completely analog phonograph horn sounds like is pointless. You can't replicate that sound created by a reproducer and vibrating through a large wooden case. I know, cause I have one and that sound is a unique thing that is the reason for owning a phonograph.
b) music of the day would have been mixed to sound good on an analog system and probably not what the industry typically balances for today (crappy iphone headphones and car stereos)
c) this kind of music restoration doesn't happen as often for this very reason. It doesn't JUST require a sound engineer but also a certain degree of knowledge of the time period and what music was meant to sound like.
To a certain degree, taking 78s that played on a phonograph and getting them to be listenable today through speakers is going to involve some improvisation if, like me, you want to reproduce an accurate sound and not necessarily a good remastered sound. Sorry don't know how else to put it. It's a bit to me like when a classic film is released with a new (and ridiculous) 5.1 mix when there was only ever center channel mono in the theaters of the time.
Now, how about the other point though, that sometimes I feel like the RIAA inverted makes the recording sound worse? Wouldn't it be best then to leave it alone without inverting the RIAA? On some really beaten up 78s it just accentuates the surface noise and I feel like it's killing any lower end that's there to a point that makes the whole song lose fidelity.

I appreciate the thoughts. I'm transferring a lot of my own 78s. Some of them really valuable cause I want to be able to listen to them in a row, as albums and saving the actual record for times when I really wanna hear my 1927 phonograph in my apartment.

[2Bdecided]

a) trying to replicate what a completely analog phonograph horn sounds like is pointless.

Agree. It's easy to do, but there's more information and fidelity in these record grove than a gramophone/acustoustic phonograph can reproduce (though larger EMGs and HMV re-entrants do quite well).

However, within the limitations of the microphones of the time, the recording EQ was quite accurate. Especially early on, they didn't have many facilities to mess with it.

Cheers,
David.