xiphmont’s ‘There is no point to distributing music in 24 bit/192 kHz’, Article: “24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed” |
xiphmont’s ‘There is no point to distributing music in 24 bit/192 kHz’, Article: “24/192 Music Downloads are Very Silly Indeed” |
Mar 6 2012, 03:14
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#1
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![]() Group: Developer Posts: 191 Joined: 8-July 03 Member No.: 7653 |
Of interest, but certainly not news to anyone here is Monty's educational piece regarding the lack of value of 24/192 as a distribution format:
http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Some of the commentary on the internet has been not especially well informed, for example there are some crazy claims at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3668310. If you're in a "someone is wrong on the internet!" correcting mood, you might want to go leave some comments in furtherance of the collective intelligence of mankind. Cheers |
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Mar 13 2012, 14:07
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#2
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Group: Members Posts: 3080 Joined: 1-September 05 From: SE Pennsylvania Member No.: 24233 |
I would hardly call float32 a danger zone. Even when the signal is greater than 0.5 of full scale (which is a small percentage of the time) float32 has a full 24 bits of resolution. When the signal is down at 2^-24 you still have 24 bits, that is 2^-48 of full scale.
When you perform repeated arithmetic operations on the data, if the rounding is uncorrelated (which it should be) then the increase in digitization error only increases as the square root of the number of operations. One thousand operations increases the error by 5 bits. |
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Mar 13 2012, 16:12
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#3
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Group: Members Posts: 121 Joined: 25-January 12 Member No.: 96698 |
I would hardly call float32 a danger zone. Even when the signal is greater than 0.5 of full scale (which is a small percentage of the time) float32 has a full 24 bits of resolution. When the signal is down at 2^-24 you still have 24 bits, that is 2^-48 of full scale. that sounds about right and even then that is worse case, as you could simplfy the operations before performing them in the first place thus limiting the places where rounding occurs.When you perform repeated arithmetic operations on the data, if the rounding is uncorrelated (which it should be) then the increase in digitization error only increases as the square root of the number of operations. One thousand operations increases the error by 5 bits. |
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NullC xiphmont’s ‘There is no point to distributing music in 24 bit/192 kHz’ Mar 6 2012, 03:14
NullC It's also on slashdot now: http://news.slashdo... Mar 6 2012, 05:36
Canar RE: xiphmont’s ‘There is no point to distributing music in 24 bit/192 kHz’ Mar 6 2012, 05:52
mudlord QUOTE (Canar @ Mar 5 2012, 22:52) Mar 6 2012, 06:08
xiphmont QUOTE (Canar @ Mar 5 2012, 23:52)
Oooh,... Mar 9 2012, 09:12
Canar QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 9 2012, 00:12) Oooh... Mar 9 2012, 16:36
DigitalMan Very, very nicely done. Long live TOS #8. Mar 6 2012, 06:27
Carledwards Excellent. Glad to see this and I hope it gets wid... Mar 6 2012, 08:50
Batman321 Great article!
Meanwhile in a parallel u... Mar 6 2012, 09:00
Porcus At the risk of spinning off a digression: what is ... Mar 6 2012, 09:32
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Porcus @ Mar 6 2012, 03:32) At the... Mar 6 2012, 14:41
skamp ^^^ http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/03/odac-updat... Mar 6 2012, 10:27
AndyH-ha The answer depends on conditions, like the chem la... Mar 6 2012, 10:39
Porcus QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Mar 6 2012, 10:39)... Mar 6 2012, 13:30

saratoga QUOTE (Porcus @ Mar 6 2012, 07:30) QUOTE ... Mar 6 2012, 18:26
DonP QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Mar 6 2012, 05:39)... Mar 6 2012, 13:59

Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (DonP @ Mar 6 2012, 07:59) QUOTE (A... Mar 6 2012, 14:45
Martel QUOTE (AndyH-ha @ Mar 6 2012, 11:39)... Mar 6 2012, 15:15
hlloyge Finally. Thank you. Mar 6 2012, 11:25
razer Such a great read. Mar 6 2012, 13:16
dumdidum Monty: "The more that pseudoscience goes unch... Mar 6 2012, 14:52
Wombat QUOTE (NullC @ Mar 6 2012, 03:14) Some of... Mar 6 2012, 17:02
Satellite_6 "It's hard to fake ambisonics or holograp... Mar 6 2012, 20:56
jensend By the by, I recently added a little writeup about... Mar 6 2012, 22:53
klonuo QUOTE (jensend @ Mar 6 2012, 23:53) By th... Mar 7 2012, 00:04
soulsearchingsun From the article:
QUOTE Audibility of a CD-Standar... Mar 6 2012, 23:39
pdq QUOTE (soulsearchingsun @ Mar 6 2012, 17... Mar 7 2012, 03:41
WernerO QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 7 2012, 03:41) QUOTE (so... Mar 7 2012, 09:04
soulsearchingsun QUOTE (pdq @ Mar 7 2012, 03:41) QUOTE (so... Mar 7 2012, 11:00
wakibaki I'm happy to see a truly coherent argument aga... Mar 7 2012, 00:57
NullC QUOTE (wakibaki @ Mar 6 2012, 16:57) This... Mar 7 2012, 01:34
BearcatSandor QUOTE (wakibaki @ Mar 6 2012, 17:57) I... Mar 7 2012, 07:50
wakibaki I thought he made good points, but he quoted Meyer... Mar 7 2012, 01:54
xiphmont QUOTE (wakibaki @ Mar 6 2012, 19:54) I th... Mar 9 2012, 10:12
Porcus QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 9 2012, 10:12) The ... Mar 9 2012, 12:43

icstm QUOTE (Porcus @ Mar 9 2012, 11:43) If som... Mar 9 2012, 16:16

greynol QUOTE (icstm @ Mar 9 2012, 07:16) how doe... Mar 9 2012, 16:45

Porcus QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 9 2012, 16:45) QUOTE... Mar 9 2012, 17:05
krabapple QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 9 2012, 04:12) QUOT... Mar 9 2012, 23:18

xiphmont QUOTE (krabapple @ Mar 9 2012, 17:18) Tha... Mar 10 2012, 03:12

krabapple QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 9 2012, 21:12) Exce... Mar 10 2012, 23:09

FreaqyFrequency QUOTE (krabapple @ Mar 10 2012, 17:09) po... Mar 11 2012, 04:27

2Bdecided QUOTE (FreaqyFrequency @ Mar 11 2012, 03... Mar 11 2012, 20:42


xiphmont QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 11 2012, 14:42) QU... Mar 11 2012, 21:01


Porcus QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 11 2012, 21:01) As ... Mar 11 2012, 23:05

krabapple QUOTE (FreaqyFrequency @ Mar 10 2012, 22... Mar 12 2012, 05:09

2Bdecided QUOTE (krabapple @ Mar 12 2012, 04:09) Th... Mar 12 2012, 10:48
wakibaki QUOTE (xiphmont @ Mar 9 2012, 09:12) QUOT... Mar 14 2012, 15:07
BearcatSandor The article mentions that SACDs often sound better... Mar 7 2012, 05:49
krabapple QUOTE (BearcatSandor @ Mar 6 2012, 23:49)... Mar 9 2012, 22:55
2Bdecided I think this is a fantastic article.
Without wis... Mar 7 2012, 11:19
Porcus My sixth sense (i.e., my faithful placebo) just to... Mar 7 2012, 12:57
icstm This article is a perfect answer to my FIRST quest... Mar 7 2012, 15:20
LaserSokrates An excellent read, thank you very much! A bit ... Mar 9 2012, 23:35
hellokeith Does the statement of the benefits of mixing/maste... Mar 11 2012, 00:57
icstm QUOTE (hellokeith @ Mar 10 2012, 23:57) D... Mar 13 2012, 16:43
drewfx QUOTE (icstm @ Mar 13 2012, 10:43) I woul... Mar 13 2012, 17:43
2Bdecided QUOTE (drewfx @ Mar 13 2012, 16:43) QUOTE... Mar 14 2012, 10:33
drewfx QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 14 2012, 04:33) QU... Mar 14 2012, 16:41
icstm QUOTE (drewfx @ Mar 14 2012, 15:41) Yes. ... Mar 15 2012, 16:34
drewfx I'm unaware of any audio processing where inau... Mar 15 2012, 17:35
Wombat At first i have to congrat Monty that he gave us t... Mar 11 2012, 02:54
julf QUOTE (Wombat @ Mar 11 2012, 02:54) Greet... Mar 11 2012, 11:26
greynol QUOTE (Wombat @ Mar 10 2012, 17:54) There... Mar 11 2012, 19:33
moozooh In my opinion, the problem we need to focus on is ... Mar 11 2012, 16:37
Wombat What about recent CD versions that obviously don´t... Mar 11 2012, 17:42
skamp We're talking about a forum that's called ... Mar 12 2012, 11:28
Porcus QUOTE (skamp @ Mar 12 2012, 11:28) while ... Mar 12 2012, 13:18
icstm QUOTE (skamp @ Mar 12 2012, 10:28) We... Mar 12 2012, 17:57
bandpass From the article:
QUOTE Modern work flows may invo... Mar 13 2012, 11:19
SebastianG QUOTE (bandpass @ Mar 13 2012, 11:19) Fro... Mar 13 2012, 11:49
bandpass Yes, so while a pure float32 system could have pro... Mar 13 2012, 12:24
bandpass Yes, but if "Modern work flows may involve li... Mar 13 2012, 15:24
SebastianG QUOTE (bandpass @ Mar 13 2012, 15:24) Yes... Mar 13 2012, 15:33
bandpass Yes, the "sqrt rule" applies:
1000 (but... Mar 13 2012, 16:09
mixminus1 QUOTE BTW, did we get an asnwer to this?
Yes, it w... Mar 13 2012, 17:11
IgorC How about just wide public test for 16/44.1, 22/44... Mar 14 2012, 01:43
Wombat Where is Adam Savage & Jamie Hyneman when you ... Mar 14 2012, 01:52
Porcus QUOTE (Wombat @ Mar 14 2012, 01:52) Where... Mar 14 2012, 07:42
krabapple There is no point in distributing audio to consume... Mar 14 2012, 16:44
greynol It should be pretty clear from the title of the di... Mar 15 2012, 17:48
icstm QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 15 2012, 16:48) It s... Mar 16 2012, 11:22
greynol It's really a moot point since 16/44.1 can rep... Mar 15 2012, 19:14
krabapple xiphmont: evolver's reposting of your article ... Oct 11 2012, 20:53
bandpass QUOTE Papers with interesting ideas and no data (e... Oct 12 2012, 05:51
Patrunjica Fascinating read, there has been one sticking poin... Oct 13 2012, 23:51
saratoga QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 13 2012, 18:51) I... Oct 14 2012, 00:01
greynol Your wave editor is connecting the samples with st... Oct 13 2012, 23:59
Patrunjica QUOTE (saratoga @ Oct 14 2012, 02:01) You... Oct 14 2012, 00:13
drewfx QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 13 2012, 19:13) F... Oct 14 2012, 00:28
saratoga QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 13 2012, 19:13) f... Oct 14 2012, 00:46
Wombat QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 14 2012, 00:51) W... Oct 14 2012, 00:26
Patrunjica True, but each time they repeat they are different... Oct 14 2012, 01:13
greynol QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 13 2012, 17:13) I... Oct 14 2012, 01:24
splice QUOTE (Patrunjica @ Oct 13 2012, 17:13) .... Oct 14 2012, 01:39![]() ![]() |
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