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Why I am not interested in buying cds anymore?, Opinions about Cds
squallkiercosa
post Mar 10 2012, 16:25
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Why I am not interested in buying cds anymore?

Dear all of you:


I’ve been looking (for long) for a good reason, an explanation to my behavior. I've often felt guilty about not buying the albums of bands I absolutely love. There is no use for the physical albums in my opinion, I already have good quality downloads and never plays cd's anyway, only mp3's.

First, I think I should start with a background:
I am 26 right now; I lived in Russia, Venezuela, France and nowadays in Switzerland. I moved often, so moving discs all the time were not an option when it comes to travel.

My dad and my brother are audiophiles, both have tons of music (each with a particular style) I grew up seeing them buying music all the time. Fortunately for me, it never bothered me, perhaps classical music Saturday early in the morning… but, even when I did not want to listen it, it was never a problem.
I had some friends mixing records (they keep doing it) I learned the difference between house, D&B, acid with them. I tried to mix too, but I found myself playing the same records over and over again.

I must admit I am guilty of downloading. When I discovered Internet, I was a naive young innocent. I was downloading to find interesting stuffs. Whenever I liked something, I would go to the shop and buy the CD. Now, it’s convenient to get a song of the net. It is simple and fast. I rarely buy new CDs anymore, and only to convert it to mp3 and then give it to someone else like a gift.

People are not spending in music like before I guess. I ask every time the same question: how often do you buy music these days. Maybe they are spending their money on video games, computers or expensive mobile phones instead. Apparently it seems to be more important the device than music itself.
Also, there is so much music flooding the market; Is really people mad because of the industry and that they don't want to buy music anymore?

I am already used to get the music so easily, no regrets (when it comes to popular music), I don’t feel I am stealing for anyone if I download bad music and end up erasing it later.

If I grew up listening and buying records and I am not motivated to buy it anymore. What is it going to happen with the future generation?


Sincerely,




P.S. Changing the subject:
I am also tired of lossless and lossy formats; the difference is not so noticeable with all the styles. So is it worth it to save some music in lossless and others in lossy? Nope.
I was struggling to convert my music to lossless, then I realized it was much easier to find all my music already converted to Flac online, and that’s what I did. I stopped for convenience and frustration, finding the codecs to make lossless work with my iPod, my cellphone, my notebook senseless.
Nowadays I keep my music in mp3 for commodity
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skamp
post Mar 10 2012, 16:58
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Any reason you're not buying your music off iTunes or some other online outlet?


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tev777
post Mar 11 2012, 07:29
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I'm not going to get in to the moral side of what you are doing. All I am going to say is that when bands are signed to labels they are required to sell. If they put out new material and don't move enough units they are dropped. That is the bottom line.

The top 40 music that floods the radio and tv doesn't suffer much from this. The masses will always buy this stuff. The ones that will be hurt are the not so mainstream performers. They've got the talent, but do not appeal much to whomever is buying the auto tune dance hits or whatever is popular these days. These bands are judged by the labels (their employers) based on sales. Dollar and cents. Current album doesn't sell, next album doesn't get made.

OK. Maybe I will get in to the morals. Imagine it is payday. You make cars for a living. You go to the store to buy some cereal, but the cashier says your card is declined. Turns out that your boss thinks there are plenty of cars and plenty of people willing to make them. Why should he pay you?


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Hengest
post Mar 11 2012, 07:52
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I like to have the artwork that comes along with a lot of releases. Often, it can be a piece of work that the artist has had specially made for the album. In this case, it is very much a part of the album. I like to have a real version of this that I can look at. Some albums will also have a nicely made booklet to go with them, and I find that this can add to the experience too smile.gif.

Can an artist sign your digital download? If I buy a cd directly from them, I occasionally get a handwritten note thanking me for buying the album. For me, music -- even though it's often listened to in isolation -- is very much something that can connect me to the vision of an artist. Why would I want to lose a part of this in a commodified mp3 form? It's not like a packet of biscuits that I get rid of once they taste different. Or put behind the couch to be forgotten...

Of course, there is the issue of money. But how often do I have to have copies of new music (or, more precisely, how much new music do I need at any given time)? If someone has put a fair bit of time and effort into creating a piece of music, I like to try and spend a fair bit of time and effort listening to it and appreciating what it is they've accomplished with their work. Often, it can even broaden my own view of what can be achieved with music and so forth, so the process is certainly worthwhile smile.gif.

Edit: forgot to mention -- I also spend a bit of time looking for new music. If I don't actively seek out new (that is, 'unique') music, then I lose interest...

This post has been edited by Hengest: Mar 11 2012, 07:54


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squallkiercosa
post Mar 11 2012, 08:49
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The funny thing is, nowadays I can pay for my music and still... Sometimes I buy using iTunes, but honestly I don't appreciate much leaving my credit card number store in any server, the price for only one song is fine for me. ITunes store is wonderfull for podcasts and online lectures. I am aware about the charts, but again, I can easily erase popular music (there are sometimes good things) that's not always the music I look for. Merely glazing to my music library, I find more single artists than entire albums like it used to be.

This post has been edited by squallkiercosa: Mar 11 2012, 08:54
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dumdidum
post Mar 11 2012, 09:27
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QUOTE (squallkiercosa @ Mar 11 2012, 08:49) *
Sometimes I buy using iTunes, but honestly I don't appreciate much leaving my credit card number store in any server

it seems to me you are trying to rationalize your copyright violations. if you do not want apple to have your credit card, what's the advantage of buying there "sometimes" as opposed to more frequently? it would make more sense to either not buy there at all or use a gift card.
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soundping
post Mar 11 2012, 11:40
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When you have hard drives get killed from a lighting strike you'll remember why CDs are important. wink.gif
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probedb
post Mar 11 2012, 12:02
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You are just trying to justify what you do yourself by seeing if anyone else agrees. If you don't pay for an artists work, either directly to them or via labels etc, then what incentive do they have to continue creating and releasing music? Those whose sole profession is that music are left penniless.
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Redark
post Mar 11 2012, 13:19
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QUOTE (probedb @ Mar 11 2012, 12:02) *
You are just trying to justify what you do yourself by seeing if anyone else agrees. If you don't pay for an artists work, either directly to them or via labels etc, then what incentive do they have to continue creating and releasing music? Those whose sole profession is that music are left penniless.


This is certainly an interesting opinion, but if I understood you correctly you're basically saying that copyright infringement is fine as long as he only downloads old music.

We could sketch two scenarios: one for retired and dead artists or split-up bands, another for still active artists and bands in relation to their old works. In the first case illegal downloading would be fully permitted, but in the second we’d have to first determine what constituted an “old work”, for only these would be available for illegal download. What could we suggest? 2 years after the original release? 5? 10? How about 70 years after the artist’s death?

It seems to me that this argument just doesn’t work. If our purpose were just to keep artists working, we'd be much better off returning to the patronage system. How about we just do what we do elsewhere and suggest that people should follow the law or else they will get punished? Well, that would be fine, except in this case they don’t get punished.

All I can say to the hordes of starving artists out there is: if you’re unhappy with your job, quit and find another.
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[JAZ]
post Mar 11 2012, 13:33
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Even thought there is an illegal side on the opening post, I would like this thread to continue on the distribution and consumption of music today as opposed to before year 2000. I think that the original poster had this in mind, and I find it interesting for us.
(Note: I haven't bought, neither downloaded music since 2008. I just listen to internet radio stations).

- First: There's clearly the singles vs album issue.
One could say that there are genres where albums are more important, but overall, albums are becoming something for a collectionist.
I don't remember having bought an album of an artist ever. I used to buy Mixed CDs (as in Various Artists, not necessarily mixed songs. I like dance, trance, house..).
Generally speaking, the industry made us consumists in this regard, so it was only worth to buy albums made of "bests songs of...".
Mixed CDs where the way to get singles before downloading existed, and today it is generally superceeded by single downloads. Said that, Mixed CDs are still the way to get popular tracks without having to search them.

- Second: The distribution and storage method issue.
People is less aware of what he has if there isn't a physical contact with it. When having music just in digital form, there is only a number representing it (or a list, or a tree view). The good part is that there isn't generally a problem of space, transportation, damage in use,...
It is true that a hard drive is more prone get damaged than a collection of cds and Vinyls, and as such, I believe that the only real way there is to maintain it is on the Cloud. Something on the lines of AudioSafe and a mixture with iTunes Match.

The problem is that this is usually against labels' interests, because then, they cannot sell the same content again and again (See what I said above about consumism).

- Third: the owning vs licensing issue.
Once we buy a CD, we don't own the content, we are just given some rights about it.
It is obvious that we shouldn't get rights to take ownership of it, and it is reasonable to say that we cannot modify it and sell as our own. (But then, there are the countless remixes and "you copied my xxx" cases).
It is reasonable that if a radio station buys it, it needs to pay for a different license than a consumer, since that is a commercial use of the songs.

It starts not to be reasonable when you are a bar (as in snack bar, not as in music bar), a hairdresser/barbershop, or other similar business and you are required to pay for having music or the TV (yes, even the TV) in the background.

And it gets worse when you even get to pay additionally for the music played on your wedding.
<irony on>
Spain is different...
<irony off>

Of course, the industry even tried to say that making an MP3 of your CDs to hear it on your digital player, while the CD could be heard by someone else was also not permitted.

Ideally, what I would be interested as an user is a mixed mode, where I could buy some songs, while I would have access to listen to others for an amount (not necessarily a monthly plan, but neither something that would make buying songs the better solution).


I sincerely don't have the necessity to buy music anymore. (It helps that I don't go out to party much anymore so I am not as aware of new songs). As I said above, I mostly listen to radio stations and sometimes I listen to the older songs I have (remembering the good times I lived).

This post has been edited by [JAZ]: Mar 11 2012, 13:40
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extrabigmehdi
post Mar 11 2012, 13:40
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QUOTE (probedb @ Mar 11 2012, 11:02) *
If you don't pay for an artists work, either directly to them or via labels etc, then what incentive do they have to continue creating and releasing music?


I think there's way too much music available online. And probably my whole life won't be enough to know every artists / musics I could be interested in.
I'm suffering "musical attention disorder", I found hard to focus on anything, because of the insane quantity of music available.
Before I could enjoy one album, and relisten again & again, and know well weak/strong points. I'm trying to go back to this.
And regarding the mainstream artists, you can listen on radio, I often don't like them. Fast generated music, just to generate fast money, and to be quickly forgotten.
Lady Gaga, Justin Bieber,...etc just makes me sad. Also I realized that some artist are ready to release their music for free, and that doesn't mean it's not interesting.
Especially at bandcamp. Then off course, if you like the artist enough , they sell some albums.
There are very good artist at bancamp, they shouldn't be underestimated.

This post has been edited by extrabigmehdi: Mar 11 2012, 13:51
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squallkiercosa
post Mar 11 2012, 14:27
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[JAZ] Thanks for your comment, Is good to see people pointing at things records can improve (unfortunately no artist can change industry). With electronic music in general, i prefer to listen online too, there is no reason to buy Mix compilations anymore.

[extrabigmehdi] I also agree with availability these days, there is music everywhere and it's getting hard to discern what's worth it and what is definitely not. "Musical attention disorder". You made my day Bro.

[ProbeDB]: Even if I don't like it, I did it already; my information is already stored in Itunes store servers, that's not the point of the whole article (probably it is my fault for writing about unrelated things) I use Itunes from time to time to give the artist some credit.

The point is, I am losing the pleasure of buying music.

I do not intend to excuse myself. I am questioning what can i do. How can I change or what companies can do to evolve the industry. Not only merely looking and reading the booklet i will change my mind.

Thanks again to everyone

This post has been edited by squallkiercosa: Mar 11 2012, 14:41
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dhromed
post Mar 11 2012, 15:40
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Well, buy things off bandcamp etc.
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derty2
post Mar 11 2012, 17:26
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Conceptual definition will never disappear from the soul of the aural arts; music is an innate primal art.

Of all the arts created by mankind, music is the only one which does not require any form of education to be understood; it attaches itself to the human psyche effotlessly, and so it becomes a platform for infinite visualization and creation.

The OP wanted to publicly share his crystal ball, and good luck to him.

Me personally, I LOVE the coupling of music with all other arts, and I will support all those other industries, and they will make money from me.

If, in a future theoretical world, official channels gave NO visual or interpretive pleasures to go with musical works, then I would find a way of creating it all myself
and share ideas and output with other like-minded people... photographers, painters, sculptors, journalists, philosophers, writers and novelists, scientists and mathematicians, people who have "fuck cars" engraved on a tube of their bicycle, etc, etc, the list is never-ending.
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Ron Jones
post Mar 11 2012, 19:16
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If you don't want iTunes to have your credit card info, generate a virtual number via your card issuer and give them that. There are certainly ways around the problem.
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Nessuno
post Mar 11 2012, 20:49
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QUOTE (soundping @ Mar 11 2012, 11:40) *
When you have hard drives get killed from a lighting strike you'll remember why CDs are important. wink.gif


Ever heard about backups?


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Squeller
post Mar 11 2012, 22:38
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Usually no CDs here as well.

QUOTE (soundping @ Mar 11 2012, 11:40) *
When you have hard drives get killed from a lighting strike you'll remember why CDs are important. wink.gif

No, you just learn about holes in your backup concept.

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Porcus
post Mar 11 2012, 22:45
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I haven't quit buying CD's, I'm just not so often tempted into it as ten years ago.

- My collection is on hard drive --> lots of old stuff to discover takes my attention.

- Spotify.

- And I am so p*ssed off at the MAFIAA. I mean, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitch_Glazier -- their lobbyist frauded the president into signing a statute that Congress never approved upon, snatching copyright from the artists, and the MAFIAA has rewarded him with a Senior Executive Vice President title and salary. The sooner the music industry anno y2k is gone, the better.


So here's what I do:

- If a band I like is going to my city, then I deliberately do not buy the CD in advance. I go to the gig (I see on average a band a week), and hope to buy it from the band. Then *maybe* (but not always) the money ends up where I want it to.

- I use Spotify (free) to check out stuff. Using free Spotify means I will be blocked from listening to a track too often -- and that is a hint that this particular album is one of the few I should actually go out and buy.

- http://Bandcamp.com ? Yeah, give it to me baby. Think I've picked up more from there (and paid) than for free from http://www.jamendo.com/ .



Aside this: if a band offers their music in that format (Jamendo again), the least I can do in return is to keep seeding. Even if I don't really want to keep it. (Well it has happened that it sucks so much I feel cheated and delete everything.)

This post has been edited by Porcus: Mar 11 2012, 22:46


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mjb2006
post Mar 11 2012, 23:28
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QUOTE (squallkiercosa @ Mar 11 2012, 06:27) *
The point is, I am losing the pleasure of buying music.

I do not intend to excuse myself. I am questioning what can i do. How can I change or what companies can do to evolve the industry. Not only merely looking and reading the booklet i will change my mind.

It is not your obligation, as a consumer, to do anything but choose how and where to spend your limited entertainment budget. If buying CDs doesn't reward you enough to make it worth the asking price, then don't buy them. Don't worry about what message it is sending to future generations, or what may or may not be happening to the copyright exploitation industry and those artists who choose to rely on it. The businesspeople behind the scenes are well-aware of changing patterns of consumer behavior, and they are responding in various ways—sometimes progressively, such as by trying to move music (and games, movies, books, etc.) toward being on-demand services, often of the "value-add" type, rather than being a direct product. There are pros and cons to their tactics, and they are making some huge mistakes, but they are also getting some things very right. Art will not die because you chose not to buy the latest Lady Gaga CD.
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2Bdecided
post Mar 11 2012, 23:43
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QUOTE (tev777 @ Mar 11 2012, 06:29) *
The top 40 music that floods the radio and tv doesn't suffer much from this. The masses will always buy this stuff.
You think? Most of the top 40 is aimed at people too young to earn money. 30 years ago most people recorded this music from the top 40 radio show. Or copied the albums from the one person in school who bought it. Now they download it from the one person on the internet who bought it.

I probably bought more music than most at that age, but I also had more copied music than most too.

For most people, there will be a continuum from "most have" music, to "can't stand" music - and most people will buy their "must have" music. If you're going to give it to someone you love as a gift, you've really got to pay for it!

The question is, how far down that continuum do people continue to pay for music? It depends on how much money they have, how much music costs, how easy it is to get the music without paying, and the quality/usefulness of that free copy.

The transition from dubbing friend's LPs to cassette tape, to downloading complete lossless albums with one click, moves that "pay for it" point considerably.

Cheers,
David.

P.S. I still buy CDs. I still don't have them all ripped. Haven't gone back to ones I haven't played for years.
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GeSomeone
post Mar 12 2012, 02:40
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Stopped buying CD. But I still buy surround music. Like 5.1 versions on a DVD(-A) with a CD on the side.


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extrabigmehdi
post Mar 12 2012, 04:11
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Mar 11 2012, 21:45) *
Think I've picked up more from there (and paid) than for free from http://www.jamendo.com/ .


Why, oh why, did you show me this. As if I do not download enough stuff.
Found Saregama artist seems quite talented.... Oh no, must ignore.
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Porcus
post Mar 12 2012, 08:56
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Mar 11 2012, 22:45) *
Aside this: if a band offers their music in that format (Jamendo again), the least I can do in return is to keep seeding. Even if I don't really want to keep it. (Well it has happened that it sucks so much I feel cheated and delete everything.)


Failed to mention BitTorrent.


@ extrabigmehdi : You're welcome wink.gif


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probedb
post Mar 12 2012, 09:51
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QUOTE (Redark @ Mar 11 2012, 12:19) *
QUOTE (probedb @ Mar 11 2012, 12:02) *
You are just trying to justify what you do yourself by seeing if anyone else agrees. If you don't pay for an artists work, either directly to them or via labels etc, then what incentive do they have to continue creating and releasing music? Those whose sole profession is that music are left penniless.


This is certainly an interesting opinion, but if I understood you correctly you're basically saying that copyright infringement is fine as long as he only downloads old music.


Erm no, where exactly do I say it's fine copying old music?
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soundping
post Mar 12 2012, 10:08
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QUOTE (soundping @ Mar 11 2012, 05:40) *
When you have hard drives get killed from a lighting strike you'll remember why CDs are important. wink.gif

I'm talking about a regular home user not a server setup. rolleyes.gif
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