Big-label mastering engineers don’t understand lossy formats, Article about Mastered for iTunes |
Big-label mastering engineers don’t understand lossy formats, Article about Mastered for iTunes |
Mar 27 2012, 09:12
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#1
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 762 Joined: 12-March 05 From: Kiel, Germany Member No.: 20561 |
Just found this article via twitter, circled among mastering "engineers" (in fact Heba Kadry reposted it, the girl who mastered the latest Mars Volta album, which reaches -12.79 dB on my RG scans, and is generally mastered in a horrible fashion).
This further backs my impression that most of them don't have a single clue of what they are doing. The section about the mastering practices of Rubin and Meller are especially eye-opening to me. Masterdisk "engineers" also apparently are now out to rape the Rush back catalogue. Further down they cite phase-reverse tests to prove AAC files are different from the original (wow, REALLY?). The good thing is, I can use this article to decide which releases to avoid in the future. But I'm really at a loss what we can do beside that. I'm really fed up with mastering "engineers" destroying music releases. This post has been edited by Kohlrabi: Mar 27 2012, 09:17 -------------------- Audiophiles live in constant fear of jitter.
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Mar 27 2012, 09:35
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#2
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![]() ReplayGain developer Group: Developer Posts: 4586 Joined: 5-November 01 From: Yorkshire, UK Member No.: 409 |
I think you're being a little harsh on the article.
One thing amazed me though... QUOTE Bob Ludwig of Gateway Mastering, who is known for his objectivity and diligence, said "…[Another] important addition is the realization that the act of AAC encoding can cause clipping where there was none on the original PCM .wav or .aiff file" This is news to a diligent mastering engineer? Has he just stepped out of a time machine from 1996?!I haven't looked into "mastered for iTunes" - it seems strange to "need" to EQ a track to compensate for the effects of an AAC encoder running at 256kbps. Cheers, David. |
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Mar 27 2012, 09:44
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#3
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![]() Group: Members (Donating) Posts: 762 Joined: 12-March 05 From: Kiel, Germany Member No.: 20561 |
I think you're being a little harsh on the article. I'm a little anxious right now, because I tried to listen to "Noctourniquet" by The Mars Volta and got all angry. I haven't looked into "mastered for iTunes" - it seems strange to "need" to EQ a track to compensate for the effects of an AAC encoder running at 256kbps. Please understand how these people roll. They don't understand perceptual encoding. They don't understand that AAC encodes merely are intended to sound like the original. I guess they sit in front of their mastering software and see that the waveforms differ, and then start to fiddle with the stream they send into the encoder until the waveforms match better. I have no definitive proof of that, but the phase-inversion comparison gives me the strong impression that this is the case. Just to make it clear, I don't intend to give disrespect to mastering engineers or engineers in general, just to the breed which completely abandoned, or never acquired, understanding of digital audio, and still sprout their bullshit all over the internet, and keep destroying legit good music. They are a disgrace to the engineering community. This post has been edited by Kohlrabi: Mar 27 2012, 09:50 -------------------- Audiophiles live in constant fear of jitter.
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Mar 27 2012, 14:10
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#4
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 1049 Joined: 16-February 08 From: NL Member No.: 51347 |
I'm a little anxious right now, because I tried to listen to "Noctourniquet" by The Mars Volta and got all angry. I don't consider the new album (and the one previous to that) to be as harsh as the earlier ones, but subjectively I find it less interesting. It's just a shame that the earlier albums break one's ear drums, because on purely musical terms, I think they're very good. That is what saddens me. It's like putting on a light show but you shine all the spotlights directly in people's faces. |
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Kohlrabi Big-label mastering engineers don’t understand lossy formats Mar 27 2012, 09:12
evereux QUOTE Apple’s 256 kbps AAC files are supposed to s... Mar 27 2012, 09:26
skamp They obviously think what they do is teh shit. Nor... Mar 27 2012, 09:32
Nessuno QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Mar 27 2012, 09:44) Jus... Mar 27 2012, 10:55

DonP QUOTE (Nessuno @ Mar 27 2012, 05:55) QUOT... Mar 27 2012, 12:38
Fandango @greynol: Oh, here it is explained by a guy named ... Mar 29 2012, 05:14
skamp QUOTE (Fandango @ Mar 29 2012, 06:14) PS:... Mar 31 2012, 10:59
KMD Thats round the wrong way, the article said the ... Mar 27 2012, 10:14
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (KMD @ Mar 27 2012, 05:14) Thats r... Mar 27 2012, 17:15
Porcus I bet the people behind Monkey's Audio will wa... Mar 27 2012, 11:15
RobWansbeck Vlado Meller is reported as saying :
“ The high... Mar 27 2012, 16:11
greynol http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st... Mar 27 2012, 16:14
TrustScience QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 27 2012, 03:35) I ... Mar 28 2012, 23:39
Canar QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 28 2012, 15:39)... Mar 29 2012, 03:12

TrustScience QUOTE (Canar @ Mar 28 2012, 21:12) QUOTE ... Mar 29 2012, 14:24

greynol QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 06:24)... Mar 29 2012, 15:22


krabapple QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 29 2012, 10:22) So t... Mar 29 2012, 17:14



greynol QUOTE (krabapple @ Mar 29 2012, 09:14) Yo... Mar 29 2012, 18:03


TrustScience QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 29 2012, 09:22) Your... Mar 29 2012, 17:18


greynol QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 09:18)... Mar 29 2012, 17:39


TrustScience QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 29 2012, 11:39) QUOT... Mar 29 2012, 17:49


saratoga QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 12:49)... Mar 29 2012, 18:02

greynol QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 06:24)... Mar 29 2012, 15:37


krabapple QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 29 2012, 10:37) QUOT... Mar 29 2012, 17:17


TrustScience QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 29 2012, 09:37) QUOT... Mar 29 2012, 17:32



saratoga QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 12:32)... Mar 29 2012, 18:00



2Bdecided QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 16:32)... Mar 29 2012, 18:26



TrustScience QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 29 2012, 12:26) QU... Mar 29 2012, 18:52



Canar QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 10:52)... Mar 29 2012, 18:58




TrustScience QUOTE (Canar @ Mar 29 2012, 12:58) QUOTE ... Mar 29 2012, 19:02




greynol QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 09:32)... Mar 29 2012, 19:04




Canar QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 10:52)... Mar 29 2012, 19:04



saratoga QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 13:52)... Mar 29 2012, 19:37



2Bdecided QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 17:52)... Mar 30 2012, 10:19



TrustScience QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Mar 30 2012, 04:19) It... Mar 30 2012, 17:19



saratoga QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 30 2012, 12:19)... Mar 30 2012, 19:06




TrustScience That's true. I did make a couple clarifying ed... Mar 30 2012, 20:13



2Bdecided QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 30 2012, 17:19)... Mar 31 2012, 10:33



krabapple QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 30 2012, 12:19)... Mar 31 2012, 21:59


saratoga QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 29 2012, 10:37) QUOT... Mar 29 2012, 18:19

2Bdecided QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 13:24)... Mar 29 2012, 16:45

krabapple QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 09:24)... Mar 29 2012, 17:10

saratoga QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 09:24)... Mar 29 2012, 17:48

TrustScience QUOTE (saratoga @ Mar 29 2012, 11:48) The... Mar 29 2012, 18:02

saratoga QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 29 2012, 13:02)... Mar 29 2012, 18:13
saratoga QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 28 2012, 18:39)... Mar 29 2012, 04:29

greynol QUOTE the Mastered for iTunes process uses a healt... Mar 29 2012, 04:46
Fandango QUOTE (Canar @ Mar 29 2012, 04:12) QUOTE ... Mar 29 2012, 04:34
IgorC QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 28 2012, 19:39)... Apr 6 2012, 23:17
greynol I read the paper by Apple back when we first discu... Mar 29 2012, 05:23
Fandango Ah, it has been discussed before and Apple actuall... Mar 29 2012, 05:30
greynol I provided a link already. Go to the first post i... Mar 29 2012, 05:35
Fandango QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 29 2012, 06:35) I pr... Mar 29 2012, 05:51
saratoga I think the most damning thing about the mastered ... Mar 29 2012, 05:53
Fandango QUOTE (saratoga @ Mar 29 2012, 06:53) Ess... Mar 29 2012, 06:04
greynol As I said in the dedicated discussion, Apple is ad... Mar 29 2012, 05:59
saratoga QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 29 2012, 00:59) As I... Mar 29 2012, 06:12
greynol RE: Big-label mastering engineers don’t understand lossy formats Mar 29 2012, 06:30
2Bdecided It's what happens when the art-world and scien... Mar 29 2012, 09:36
drewfx Perhaps interviewing someone with a background in ... Mar 29 2012, 19:02
greynol When I am in a position to improve something of mi... Mar 30 2012, 16:49
TrustScience QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 30 2012, 10:49) When... Mar 30 2012, 17:40
saratoga QUOTE (TrustScience @ Mar 30 2012, 12:40)... Mar 30 2012, 19:13
greynol I'll try not to make this a long post as I... Mar 30 2012, 20:47
saratoga At least from my point of view (and as I mentioned... Mar 30 2012, 21:41
db1989 QUOTE (saratoga @ Mar 30 2012, 21:41) And... Mar 30 2012, 21:53
saratoga QUOTE (db1989 @ Mar 30 2012, 16:53) QUOTE... Mar 30 2012, 22:23
greynol Aside from db1989's point in the next post whi... Mar 30 2012, 21:52
greynol Since others are piling on while admittedly not ad... Mar 31 2012, 22:14
Axon Perhaps TrustScience would have found our reaction... Apr 1 2012, 17:26
Kohlrabi QUOTE (Axon @ Apr 1 2012, 18:26) In that ... Apr 1 2012, 18:09
knutinh QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Apr 1 2012, 19:09) Warr... Apr 1 2012, 22:06
Kohlrabi QUOTE (knutinh @ Apr 1 2012, 23:06) QUOTE... Apr 1 2012, 22:22
knutinh QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Apr 1 2012, 23:22) My p... Apr 2 2012, 09:00
skamp QUOTE (knutinh @ Apr 2 2012, 10:00) let u... Apr 2 2012, 09:15
knutinh QUOTE (skamp @ Apr 2 2012, 10:15) iTunes ... Apr 2 2012, 12:31
krabapple It's possible that calling famous mastering en... Apr 2 2012, 07:17
Kohlrabi The notion that mastering engineers who deliberate... Apr 2 2012, 13:07
db1989 QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Apr 2 2012, 13:07) I al... Apr 2 2012, 13:25
Kohlrabi Thank you very much, db1989. That was what I had i... Apr 2 2012, 13:48
db1989 Great! Apr 2 2012, 13:50
absinthe33 QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Mar 27 2012, 10:12) Jus... Apr 2 2012, 15:22
dhromed QUOTE (absinthe33 @ Apr 2 2012, 15:22) br... Apr 2 2012, 16:08
absinthe33 QUOTE (dhromed @ Apr 2 2012, 17:08) QUOTE... Apr 2 2012, 23:04
splice QUOTE (absinthe33 @ Apr 2 2012, 15:04) ..... Apr 2 2012, 23:52
2Bdecided Some lossy codecs can introduce audible temporal s... Apr 2 2012, 15:28
skamp Heba Kadry again: "While Im all for setting a... Apr 4 2012, 15:23
Kohlrabi QUOTE (skamp @ Apr 4 2012, 16:23) Heba Ka... Apr 4 2012, 22:29
splice QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Apr 4 2012, 14:29) ... ... Apr 5 2012, 01:33
2Bdecided ...which leads back to Justin's latest article... Apr 4 2012, 16:25
2Bdecided QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Apr 4 2012, 16:25) ...... Apr 5 2012, 11:24
stephan_g ^Agreed. A "decent stereo", btw, include... Apr 5 2012, 16:30
krabapple QUOTE (stephan_g @ Apr 5 2012, 11:30) Why... Apr 5 2012, 18:04
2Bdecided QUOTE (stephan_g @ Apr 5 2012, 16:30) ^Ag... Apr 5 2012, 18:43
stephan_g Don't know about that, but I was just browsing... Apr 5 2012, 21:56
markanini QUOTE (stephan_g @ Apr 5 2012, 21:56) Not... Apr 6 2012, 02:01
krabapple QUOTE (stephan_g @ Apr 5 2012, 16:56) Not... Apr 6 2012, 20:28![]() ![]() |
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