Skeptoid: Digital vs Vinyl, Podcast casts its skeptical eye on digital audio Options

[rick.hughes]

Skeptoid: Digital vs Vinyl

[kraut]

Most of the heat is produced inside the groove walls by the pressure of the stylus deforming the vinyl, not the friction of the stylus against the walls. The presence of a cooling agent has little effect.

What does it matter where the heat is produced? If the groove wall gets deformed, the resultant heat will still be dissipated faster with a cooling agent present than without. And the cooling agent is in the groove after all. I do not understand your argument.

By your logic water surrounding a combustion motor cylinder will not help dissipate the heat because the heat is produced inside the cylinder?

For me, the evidence was that Discwasher found large quantities of acetic acid on the disc surface

Evidence by Discwasher is tainted, biased and therefore useless. Show me proper analysis of what is found with proper ph readings and I might be convinced. Other than that - hearsay.

including 85% polyvinyl chloride (PVC), 15% polyvinyl acetate (PVA), antistatic agents, dyes, stabilizers (heavy metals such as lead

I tried to find evidence concerning the composition of record grade vinyl, and could not find among the sources (several google pages) any that clearly defines what is included, even the one I linked to is fairly vague.
I looked into the chemistry of polymer vinyl acetate and some references were made to various products using this in conjunction with chlorinated form of vinyl polymer, but no clear indication of its use.
The author linked to fails to supply any sources, so I will not accept his statements just now. The same goes for Wikipedia, no sources linked to support that statement.


Jean Hiraga, 1978: having read statements concerning tube amps by Hiraga, I have some difficulty accepting him as a serious source.

The plasticiser dissolves the paint and welds the cable and paint surface together, peeling the paint when the cable is moved

I have no experiential references to your statement. I do not know what you are talking about.
The worst thing that I found regarding plasticizers is the deteriorating foam of old SLR cameras ( I collect pentax slrs, for use, not show) >40 years old.

[Woodinville]

I have no experiential references to your statement. I do not know what you are talking about.
The worst thing that I found regarding plasticizers is the deteriorating foam of old SLR cameras ( I collect pentax slrs, for use, not show) >40 years old.

IF we are to build knowlege, we must build on what others do that has been tested and verified, stuff like understanding that wet playing is hard on records, and that groves do deform due to accileration alone in vinyl playback. It is, after all, despite your faux skepticism, nothing but physics.

[kraut]

I have no experiential references to your statement. I do not know what you are talking about.
The worst thing that I found regarding plasticizers is the deteriorating foam of old SLR cameras ( I collect pentax slrs, for use, not show) >40 years old.

IF we are to build knowlege, we must build on what others do that has been tested and verified, stuff like understanding that wet playing is hard on records, and that groves do deform due to accileration alone in vinyl playback. It is, after all, despite your faux skepticism, nothing but physics.

What bothers me with your posts is the categorical "knowing better" attitude, that apparently prohibits you from answering question other than by arguing from authority or flatly denying there is any benefit to the question in a fairly arrogant manner, called "besser wisser" in german.
The discussion regarding wet/vs dry playing is far from settled, and there are arguments for and against it, especially considering the claims regarding chemistry of vinyl that are far from certain and depend very much on each manufacturers formulation. We are not just talking physics here, we are talking chemistry and material science, complicating the issue.

The same is true for the deformation, elastic or otherwise that depends on the design of the tonearm, cartridge mass, tracking weight etc. If you want to ignore those parametres and how they change the actual wear and tear on a record - why do you even participate? Just to piss on everybody else who has questions?
For me the "certain" claims as to behaviour are far from settled, as this discussion should show. We have contrary to questions like the non falsifiability of time dilation or even the calculations of the acceleration of mass in a gravitational filed no definite proof of any of your contentions regarding the material science, chemistry and its effect on the physical behaviour of a stylus on a record surface.

It is simply wrong just to categorically state that wet playing is "hard" on records, based on biased not very scientific research, ignoring the positive aspects.

But hey, why should you stop ignoring my arguments, you have been doing fine so far.

For some reason the name Sheldon comes to mind.....and thanks for the "faux" skeptic.
On other forums I participate in that would be equal to a Godwin....

This post has been edited by kraut: Apr 7 2012, 07:28