Skeptoid: Digital vs Vinyl, Podcast casts its skeptical eye on digital audio Options

[rick.hughes]

Skeptoid: Digital vs Vinyl

[kraut]

Most of the heat is produced inside the groove walls by the pressure of the stylus deforming the vinyl, not the friction of the stylus against the walls. The presence of a cooling agent has little effect.

What does it matter where the heat is produced? If the groove wall gets deformed, the resultant heat will still be dissipated faster with a cooling agent present than without. And the cooling agent is in the groove after all. I do not understand your argument.

By your logic water surrounding a combustion motor cylinder will not help dissipate the heat because the heat is produced inside the cylinder?

For me, the evidence was that Discwasher found large quantities of acetic acid on the disc surface

Evidence by Discwasher is tainted, biased and therefore useless. Show me proper analysis of what is found with proper ph readings and I might be convinced. Other than that - hearsay.

including 85% polyvinyl chloride (PVC), 15% polyvinyl acetate (PVA), antistatic agents, dyes, stabilizers (heavy metals such as lead

I tried to find evidence concerning the composition of record grade vinyl, and could not find among the sources (several google pages) any that clearly defines what is included, even the one I linked to is fairly vague.
I looked into the chemistry of polymer vinyl acetate and some references were made to various products using this in conjunction with chlorinated form of vinyl polymer, but no clear indication of its use.
The author linked to fails to supply any sources, so I will not accept his statements just now. The same goes for Wikipedia, no sources linked to support that statement.


Jean Hiraga, 1978: having read statements concerning tube amps by Hiraga, I have some difficulty accepting him as a serious source.

The plasticiser dissolves the paint and welds the cable and paint surface together, peeling the paint when the cable is moved

I have no experiential references to your statement. I do not know what you are talking about.
The worst thing that I found regarding plasticizers is the deteriorating foam of old SLR cameras ( I collect pentax slrs, for use, not show) >40 years old.

[splice]

... What does it matter where the heat is produced? If the groove wall gets deformed, the resultant heat will still be dissipated faster with a cooling agent present than without. And the cooling agent is in the groove after all. I do not understand your argument.

How fast the heat is dissipated doesn't affect the damaged caused. Take two identical discs. Play a blowtorch over them for a few seconds. Throw a bucket of water over one, leave the other to air cool. Which one suffers the most damage? It could also be argued that rapid cooling increases the stresses and damage to the vinyl, as it does to many other materials.

By your logic water surrounding a combustion motor cylinder will not help dissipate the heat because the heat is produced inside the cylinder?

Your logic is faulty. The combustion temperature in the cylinder will be the same whether there is a water jacket or not, just as the groove wall temperature reaches the same level whether wet played or not. Where your logic falls apart is when you count the number of cycles per second. Does a motor cylinder need water cooling if it only experiences one combustion cycle per 20 minutes or so?

Evidence by Discwasher is tainted, biased and therefore useless. Show me proper analysis of what is found with proper ph readings and I might be convinced. Other than that - hearsay.

Discwasher had to prove that the effect was real and that their product minimised it in order to obtain their patents. You, on the other hand, have only your own experience with no evidence. For example, your record collection is not duplicated, with one set played wet and one dry, with logging of the differences over the years.

Jean Hiraga, 1978: having read statements concerning tube amps by Hiraga, I have some difficulty accepting him as a serious source.

You appear to be unaware of his work on the interactions between the various parts of a turntable playing a record. It was well researched and mathematically rigorous. But it was uncontroversial and therefore unmemorable except to those working in the field. I learnt of his work after finding him quoted as a reference by later workers.

The plasticiser dissolves the paint and welds the cable and paint surface together, peeling the paint when the cable is moved

I have no experiential references to your statement. I do not know what you are talking about.

Your lack of experience with a phenomenon does not mean it does not exist. The effect of PVC sheathed wiring on polystyrene foam is especially annoying to those who collect vintage gaming consoles and home computers. Those still with their original packaging are sought after, but all too often they were used and then packed away with the cables in contact with the polystyrene packaging popular at the time. The resulting damage lowers their value. As for the plasticisers in cling film, you can start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_wrap and continue with the references at the bottom of the article.

The worst thing that I found regarding plasticizers is the deteriorating foam of old SLR cameras ( I collect pentax slrs, for use, not show) >40 years old.

I reluctantly retired my own SLR when the foam on the mirror frame disintegrated. Even after a thorough cleaning, occasional flecks kept appearing on the film so I couldn't trust it for critical work any more. Deteriorating foam has had a large effect on the audio scene as well. It's also a problem in the vintage mainframe and personal computer world, where foam was often used for sound deadening and air flow management.

This post has been edited by splice: Apr 7 2012, 10:30

[Nessuno]

Deteriorating foam has had a large effect on the audio scene as well.

Like in woofer suspensions disintegration which, AFAIK, in the long terms is caused much more by aging than by the mechanical stress of (reasonabily proper) playing.

[Woodinville]

Deteriorating foam has had a large effect on the audio scene as well.

Like in woofer suspensions disintegration which, AFAIK, in the long terms is caused much more by aging than by the mechanical stress of (reasonabily proper) playing.

Yeah, I thought about pointing that out, but I don't think facts are the issue in this discusson. I've had several older speaker designs I've done fail by foam-blowout. I'm sure I'm not the only one.