Skeptoid: Digital vs Vinyl, Podcast casts its skeptical eye on digital audio |
Skeptoid: Digital vs Vinyl, Podcast casts its skeptical eye on digital audio |
Mar 28 2012, 11:59
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#1
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![]() Group: Members Posts: 91 Joined: 16-February 07 Member No.: 40679 |
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Apr 9 2012, 16:54
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#2
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Group: Members Posts: 3080 Joined: 1-September 05 From: SE Pennsylvania Member No.: 24233 |
@splice: That's an awful lot of conjecture, and frankly I see almost nothing that I would agree with.
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Apr 9 2012, 22:03
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#3
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Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 23-July 03 Member No.: 7935 |
@splice: That's an awful lot of conjecture, and frankly I see almost nothing that I would agree with. We were indeed making great strides in vinyl technology in the 80s, and the Soundstream system was real. The remaining candidates for conjecture are my musings on sample depth and rate, and the possible physical carrier form. I look forward to hearing your reasons for disagreement. You can PM me if you prefer, and if it has legs we can open a thread for it. -------------------- Regards,
Don Hills |
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Apr 10 2012, 15:44
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#4
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Group: Members Posts: 3080 Joined: 1-September 05 From: SE Pennsylvania Member No.: 24233 |
@splice: That's an awful lot of conjecture, and frankly I see almost nothing that I would agree with. We were indeed making great strides in vinyl technology in the 80s, and the Soundstream system was real. I don't have any details on the Soundstream system of recording audio data optically on a card, but let's muse on that a little. A CD has a data track that is over 5,000 meters long by 1.6 micrometers wide. It is scanned at a rate of about 1.2 meters per second. The disc is about 1 mm thick so that a lens that is almost in contact with it can have a very short focal length and very small f/ number. Without that it would not have enough resolution at the wavelength available in early 1980's diode lasers to resolve 1.6 micron details. Now what would be the equivalent in a "card"? To have the same storage area as a CD it would need to be about 8x10 cm. To be able to read the data with the same inexpensive diode laser you would still need to have the lens almost in contact with the card, but now you are scanning the data rectilinearly, i.e. scan one axis very rapidly while tracking the other axis within 1.6 microns. To achieve 1.2 meters per second scanning you would need to scan the long axis 12 times per second back and forth. Does any of this actually sound like a viable alternative to CD? If someone has real information on how the Soundstream system worked I would love to hear it. Perhaps they had some approach that I have not thought of that made it all practical, but after all, their product was never introduced and shortly after they went out of business. Edit: I searched for Soundstream's patents, and none that I found related to optical storage of audio data. Apparently they didn't value the idea very highly. This post has been edited by pdq: Apr 10 2012, 16:43 |
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rick.hughes Skeptoid: Digital vs Vinyl Mar 28 2012, 11:59
Fandango This thread just reminded me that I haven't li... Mar 28 2012, 21:29
Woodinville Hmm, we shall see how he copes with my comment tha... Mar 28 2012, 22:45
Fandango Didn't he dodge the big question anyway? He sa... Mar 29 2012, 03:38
krabapple QUOTE (Fandango @ Mar 28 2012, 22:38) Did... Mar 29 2012, 17:22
mzil QUOTE (krabapple @ Mar 29 2012, 11:22) In... Mar 29 2012, 22:23
knutinh QUOTE (mzil @ Mar 29 2012, 23:23) What I... Mar 30 2012, 07:36

mzil QUOTE (knutinh @ Mar 30 2012, 01:36) Or, ... Mar 30 2012, 08:33

greynol Ignoring CDDA, if you are attempting to suggest th... Mar 30 2012, 15:56


mzil QUOTE (greynol @ Mar 30 2012, 09:56) Igno... Mar 30 2012, 18:04


dhromed QUOTE (mzil @ Mar 30 2012, 18:04) I'm... Mar 30 2012, 20:13


greynol QUOTE (mzil @ Mar 30 2012, 10:04) I'm... Mar 30 2012, 21:25

Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (mzil @ Mar 30 2012, 03:33) QUOTE (... Apr 3 2012, 14:45

mzil QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Apr 3 2012, 08... Apr 3 2012, 23:32
krabapple QUOTE (mzil @ Mar 29 2012, 17:23) Althoug... Mar 31 2012, 22:18
mzil QUOTE (krabapple @ Mar 31 2012, 16:18) Bu... Apr 1 2012, 02:22
hlloyge QUOTE (Fandango @ Mar 29 2012, 03:38) I d... Mar 29 2012, 09:44
Nessuno QUOTE (hlloyge @ Mar 29 2012, 09:44) QUOT... Mar 29 2012, 11:26

Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Nessuno @ Mar 29 2012, 06:26) QUOT... Apr 3 2012, 14:42


Nessuno QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Apr 3 2012, 15... Apr 3 2012, 17:31

splice QUOTE (Nessuno @ Mar 29 2012, 03:26) QUOT... Apr 17 2012, 02:47
Woodinville QUOTE (hlloyge @ Mar 29 2012, 01:44) QUOT... Mar 30 2012, 02:01
knutinh QUOTE (Woodinville @ Mar 30 2012, 03:01) ... Mar 30 2012, 07:55
splice QUOTE (knutinh @ Mar 29 2012, 22:55) If I... Mar 31 2012, 00:38
Fandango Right, besides one could analyze the recording for... Mar 29 2012, 21:13
Pio2001 QUOTE (Fandango @ Mar 29 2012, 22:13) But... Sep 15 2012, 16:45
hlloyge QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Sep 15 2012, 17:45) Last... Sep 15 2012, 19:09
mzil Dhromed, Thanks! Great respone, but when I wen... Mar 30 2012, 21:28
Woodinville Just want to point out that the biggest component ... Mar 31 2012, 23:10
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (Woodinville @ Mar 31 2012, 18:10) ... Apr 3 2012, 14:50
Nessuno QUOTE (Woodinville @ Apr 1 2012, 00:10) H... Apr 5 2012, 07:59
Engelsstaub QUOTE (Nessuno @ Apr 5 2012, 01:59) ...ev... Apr 5 2012, 15:04
krabapple QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Apr 5 2012, 10:04) I... Apr 5 2012, 17:55
kraut QUOTE Then there is the FM distortion caused by ..... Apr 3 2012, 17:52
Woodinville QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 3 2012, 09:52) QUOTE [... Apr 4 2012, 06:19
stephan_g QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 3 2012, 17:52) QUOTE T... Apr 4 2012, 22:36

splice QUOTE (stephan_g @ Apr 4 2012, 14:36) ...... Apr 5 2012, 01:45

Woodinville QUOTE (splice @ Apr 4 2012, 17:45) Many n... Apr 5 2012, 03:53
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 3 2012, 12:52) QUOTE T... Apr 6 2012, 14:52
kraut QUOTE Perhaps you should actually read up on the r... Apr 4 2012, 15:59
Woodinville QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 4 2012, 07:59) QUOTE P... Apr 5 2012, 03:50
kraut QUOTE [Having said that, playing vinyl twice insid... Apr 6 2012, 06:28
splice QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 5 2012, 21:28) QUOTE [... Apr 6 2012, 07:44

DonP QUOTE (splice @ Apr 6 2012, 02:44) Lo and... Apr 6 2012, 14:54
Nessuno QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 6 2012, 07:28) And if ... Apr 6 2012, 07:56
kraut QUOTE Where is the proof? Just claims pulled out o... Apr 6 2012, 07:37
Woodinville Since I am not going to go buy an expensive, obsol... Apr 6 2012, 10:42
2Bdecided QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 6 2012, 07:37) My expe... Apr 6 2012, 12:50
kraut I play with a mixture with distilled water and 99%... Apr 6 2012, 08:12
splice QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 5 2012, 23:12) I play ... Apr 6 2012, 12:18
greynol The topic at hand is not about the manner in which... Apr 6 2012, 08:23
krabapple If you're a masochist there's always this ... Apr 6 2012, 20:23
krabapple and, btw, the AES e-library is free to search. Re... Apr 6 2012, 20:49
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (krabapple @ Apr 6 2012, 15:49) and... Apr 8 2012, 12:54
Woodinville QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Apr 8 2012, 04... Apr 8 2012, 22:00
krabapple QUOTE (Arnold B. Krueger @ Apr 8 2012, 07... Apr 9 2012, 06:08
kraut QUOTE To determine the actual deformation-force re... Apr 7 2012, 00:20
splice QUOTE To determine the actual deformation-force re... Apr 7 2012, 02:14
Engelsstaub QUOTE (splice @ Apr 6 2012, 20:14) ...I r... Apr 7 2012, 10:37
kraut QUOTE Most of the heat is produced inside the groo... Apr 7 2012, 03:56
Woodinville QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 6 2012, 19:56) I have ... Apr 7 2012, 04:16

kraut QUOTE (Woodinville @ Apr 6 2012, 20:16) Q... Apr 7 2012, 06:53

Woodinville QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 6 2012, 22:53) The sam... Apr 7 2012, 08:15
splice QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 6 2012, 19:56) ... Wha... Apr 7 2012, 10:26
Nessuno QUOTE (splice @ Apr 7 2012, 11:26) Deteri... Apr 7 2012, 11:31
Woodinville QUOTE (Nessuno @ Apr 7 2012, 03:31) QUOTE... Apr 7 2012, 21:36
kraut Just a last note:
I know that my decades long expe... Apr 7 2012, 07:59
splice I feel a sense of regret that the CD came along wh... Apr 9 2012, 14:04
knutinh QUOTE (splice @ Apr 9 2012, 23:03) We wer... Apr 9 2012, 22:44
splice QUOTE (pdq @ Apr 10 2012, 07:44) ... If s... Apr 10 2012, 21:54
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (pdq @ Apr 10 2012, 10:44) If someo... Apr 11 2012, 16:14
splice @-h, I happen to agree with almost everything you ... Apr 9 2012, 23:04
knutinh QUOTE (splice @ Apr 10 2012, 00:04) @-h, ... Apr 9 2012, 23:28
Woodinville QUOTE (knutinh @ Apr 9 2012, 15:28) I... Apr 10 2012, 04:58
knutinh QUOTE (Woodinville @ Apr 10 2012, 05:58) ... Apr 10 2012, 09:16
Nessuno QUOTE (knutinh @ Apr 10 2012, 10:16) We k... Apr 10 2012, 10:56
knutinh QUOTE (Nessuno @ Apr 10 2012, 11:56) True... Apr 10 2012, 11:52

Nessuno QUOTE (knutinh @ Apr 10 2012, 12:52) I sh... Apr 10 2012, 18:09
DonP QUOTE (Nessuno @ Apr 10 2012, 05:56) True... Apr 10 2012, 16:18
Engelsstaub My system is by no means exotic nor is it expensiv... Apr 9 2012, 23:28
kraut "To determine the actual deformation-force re... Apr 10 2012, 04:58
greynol You may want to look up the word predominant. I d... Apr 10 2012, 05:07
Woodinville QUOTE (kraut @ Apr 9 2012, 20:58) Having ... Apr 10 2012, 05:28
kraut QUOTE as is your vile defamation of those who have... Apr 10 2012, 06:09
pdq Say what you will about two channels, but I grew u... Apr 10 2012, 12:54
lvqcl Don't know about Soundstream... found this: ht... Apr 10 2012, 16:39
pdq Only in the world of vinyl would 1% THD be referre... Apr 17 2012, 13:34
Arnold B. Krueger QUOTE (pdq @ Apr 17 2012, 08:34) Only in ... Apr 17 2012, 13:43
Pio2001 Yes, that is something that I noticed too. Never l... Sep 15 2012, 19:31
mzil On some receivers/preamps the record out selector ... Sep 16 2012, 00:57
krabapple For us non-Francophones, here's Google Transla... Sep 16 2012, 18:22
mzil QUOTE (krabapple @ Sep 16 2012, 13:22) If... Sep 16 2012, 21:02

krabapple A disadvantage to any method involving LP is the l... Sep 17 2012, 16:40
Pio2001 QUOTE (krabapple @ Sep 16 2012, 19:22) Fo... Sep 16 2012, 21:14
krabapple QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Sep 16 2012, 16:14) We c... Sep 17 2012, 16:49
Pio2001 No, I mean that I observed the same distortion art... Sep 17 2012, 22:23
robbo1802 Hello Pio,
It has been a long time, I think I las... Sep 27 2012, 08:03![]() ![]() |
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