Skeptoid: Digital vs Vinyl, Podcast casts its skeptical eye on digital audio Options

[rick.hughes]

Skeptoid: Digital vs Vinyl

[Fandango]

Right, besides one could analyze the recording for such artefacts. In fact many aspects of vinyl playback can be analyzed and identified with software, or even simulated. But I dare think no-one has ever done an elaborate ABX test between vinyl and CDs where they have checked for vinyl playback giveaways. Would be interesting, even though I also have made my choice based on more practical reasons years ago.

[Pio2001]

But I dare think no-one has ever done an elaborate ABX test between vinyl and CDs where they have checked for vinyl playback giveaways. Would be interesting, even though I also have made my choice based on more practical reasons years ago.

Hello guys,
For what it's worth, I have a small collection of samples recorded from vinyl and ripped from CD, that are time and level-aligned in order to allow a comparison, or atleast to listen to the specific distortions of vinyl, recorded into digital files.

In this listening test, some samples from the same songs come sometimes from vinyl vs CD, sometimes from different pressings of the same vinyl, sometimes from different masters. Several intersting cases are present.
Here is the link : http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=37328
The result were only published in French, there : http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/VideoSon/HiFi...jet_87812_1.htm
But if you need some clarification in English, just ask me.

It features a total of 8 pairs of samples, plus one set of 4 ones from various sources. 14 people downloaded and commented them. All were invited to ABX them. Indeed, all pairs were easily ABXable, except one that is only ABXable with some concentration.


Besides this test, here is a more specific pair of samples :

http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vin...speed-level.wav
http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vin...trackmaster.wav

The same record, taken from two different turntables, with two different stylii. The samples are speed-corrected (turntable speeds didn't match), level-aligned, and equalized (the cartridges had a different frequency response). The goal was to listen to a specific distortion that might be related to stylus wear, of maybe tonearm quality, I don't know. The distortion was present in one of the two playback setup, and I wanted to ABX it. It's the same kind distortion that you hear at the end of a 33 rpm side when chorus or organ is recorded, except that here, we can hear it caused by the playback equipment.
It seems easy to hear in non blind conditions, however, succeeded this ABX test was a challenge for me. But I did it. There is indeed more distortion in the Trackmaster file. It took me a lot of time and effort to spot it, but once I did, the ABX suddenly became a piece of cake.


Here are six isolated samples. I selected them long ago in order to illustrate the surface noise of vinyls in the most common conditions. Just in case someone was curious.

http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vin...ise/33clean.mpc
An example of high quality 33 rpm record. The label was EyeQ, and their releases, though aimed at DJ's, were always top quality.

http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vin...ise/average.mpc
The average surface noise of a clean LP. The recording level is similar to the other samples, it's just that this part of the music is quiet.

http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vinylnoise/bad.mpc
An example of poor quality, but brand new LP. It was not uncommon to get new records with that amount of noise.

http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vin...ise/defects.mpc
Two examples of defective records. Both from the 1990's.

http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vinylnoise/occaze.mpc
An example illustrating the average noise of an LP bought second hand.

http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vinylnoise/worn.mpc
An example of good quality record (bought second hand, btw), that has been played tens and tens of times.


Last, I have got a very special test, of little interest. I recorded two times the same record with the turntable just in front of the speaker. One time with the speaker off. One time with the sound at full power directed right on the cartridge. I wanted to test the claim that feedback from the speakers was a plague for sound quality, and that a Larsen loop was even possible.

http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vin...ithfeedback.mpc
http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vin...outfeedback.mpc

No Larsen. Nothing. I can't even ABX them !

[hlloyge]

Last, I have got a very special test, of little interest. I recorded two times the same record with the turntable just in front of the speaker. One time with the speaker off. One time with the sound at full power directed right on the cartridge. I wanted to test the claim that feedback from the speakers was a plague for sound quality, and that a Larsen loop was even possible.

http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vin...ithfeedback.mpc
http://3141592.pio2001.online.fr/files/vin...outfeedback.mpc

No Larsen. Nothing. I can't even ABX them !

Well, I had a tape of recorded from vinyl Kraftwerk album, The Man Machine, with the sound of some acid house in the distant background, almost at the noise level - you could hear it while listening with headphones on the quiet parts. Tape was new, unsealed, Type2 TDK SA.
Friend who taped me that said he was recording and listening quite loudly to some house CDs.
That was in late 80's. I can't abx that, because this tape doesn't exist anymore, as I bought Kraftwerk albums on CDs in the mean time...
And FYI, I'm not audiophile in the means that I need expensive gear to enjoy music - I'm more of an musicfile, gear has to be adequate so I can recognize the instruments...