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HD 280 Pro not satisfied
zerowalker
post May 5 2012, 18:42
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Okay so i bought the HD280 Pro as i read it was good, with accurate sound and such.
But i am not satisfied with it, the first is the pressure it gives, itīs like i am on the verge of getting a headache, but still not getting one.
Maybe it will disappear through use, maybe not.

But more importantly, the sound.
even my Cheap AKG something, sound better with the bass.
Now i am not one who wants enormous bass or something, but you know, normal vibrations feeling kind of bass.
That gives you that feeling.

This just, sound like there is bass, but it isnīt there;S

I tried putting on some bass sound through the night, about 10 hours to see if there is any Burn In effect.
It does sound alot better than from when i first listened, cause then it was like a Tin Can or something.
But it still doesnīt give me that Real sound feeling.


sorry for bad explanation, maybe someone knows about these headphones?

I am thinking about sending them back, but i donīt know what to get.
I want something like this, isolation, more comfortable and better sound.


Thanks:)
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saratoga
post May 5 2012, 19:47
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The HD-280s are well known for their weak bass. I recommend using EQ.
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zerowalker
post May 5 2012, 19:53
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but that doesnīt work for games youtube etc right;O?
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j7n
post May 5 2012, 20:53
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Why would you care to equalize YouTube signal? There are soundcards that can do processing anywhere in the signal path. I also happen to own a pair of AKG 141's and don't consider them "cheap". Both his and bass are perfect. Although, true bass can only be experienced with loudspeakers.
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zerowalker
post May 5 2012, 20:58
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QUOTE (j7n @ May 5 2012, 21:53) *
Why would you care to equalize YouTube signal? There are soundcards that can do processing anywhere in the signal path. I also happen to own a pair of AKG 141's and don't consider them "cheap". Both his and bass are perfect. Although, true bass can only be experienced with loudspeakers.


I never said what AKG i have, but itīs K512.

And well wahty i care about isnīt really youtube, itīs All as all, every sound.

I donīt really like that i will have to make the player change the sound so that it will sound "right".
If you get what i mean;O!


And well i use my onboard, but have tried my realtek pcie one, but well they sound about the same to me, and i have to use the onboard for serveral reasons.

But what should i do, do you have or anyone else have any recommendation on other headphones?

I Really really want closed one that is very comfortable, you know, cover the Entire ear any stuff:)

And i want good sound(no shit sherlock).

The price range is about Max 200 Dollars i guess?

PS: Cause i donīt guess Burn In will make That big difference from now on (not that i really know anything about it).

This post has been edited by zerowalker: May 5 2012, 21:00
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j7n
post May 6 2012, 05:09
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Point taken about the AKG model. The ones I have are open type phones, and won't satisfy your criteria.

What is this bass burn-in? Sounds suspicious.
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tev777
post May 6 2012, 05:12
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Are you using any kind of amplifier? I have the same headphones combined with a Total Airhead . If I am listening to bass heavy music my ears literally vibrate. Given enough power there is NOTHING wrong with the bass in the phones.


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LithosZA
post May 6 2012, 05:36
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The HD280 PROs are my favourite pair of headphones for 8 years now. I don't use any EQ.
I like them more than my HD595 and HD650.
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C.R.Helmrich
post May 6 2012, 11:24
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QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 5 2012, 21:58) *
But what should i do, do you have or anyone else have any recommendation on other headphones?

I Really really want closed one that is very comfortable, you know, cover the Entire ear any stuff:)

If you're mainly going to use your phones at home in a relatively quiet environment, then I suggest you go with open circumaural headphones. Note that open doesn't mean they don't cover the entire ear (non-circumaural), it just means the sounds is allowed to travel out of the phones on the sides facing away from your ears. To me this has always had two advantages over closed headphones: 1) less sweaty ears and often less pressure on the head because open headphones don't have to be tightly sealed, 2) more natural sound reproduction because open headphones don't have to be tightly sealed. Don't know for sure, but you might be experiencing the latter now, i.e. a bit of destructive interference in the bass, which other people don't. IIRC the HD280s have very low impedance (64 Ohms) so a dedicated amplifier shouldn't be necessary.

Chris

This post has been edited by C.R.Helmrich: May 6 2012, 11:28


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zerowalker
post May 6 2012, 12:06
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Okay to C.R Helmrich, isnīt it irritating that the sound leaks?
I mean, if i use headphones, and donīt have them tightly, letīs say i lift them a bit, the sound become, very clear, and not in a good way, sound like a mobile phone if you get what i mean.

What i mean with Bass Burn In, isnīt just Bass, itīs the Burn In.
Meaning, if i play from the headphones from day 1, it will sound alot worse(depending on lisener) than from a weeks use.
Like a pair of shoes feels better after about a month than from the first week.


Hmm, well my does vibrate sure, but if i listen to a certain sound, in these headphones it sound very treble and loud with high volume.
And on the others they sound bass like, meaning it doesnīt hurt from the high treble sound.


Does the high sounds smooth out overtime and becomes more balanced?

Cause i have read that these headphones take a very long time to burn in.

This post has been edited by zerowalker: May 6 2012, 12:07
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C.R.Helmrich
post May 6 2012, 16:40
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QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 6 2012, 13:06) *
Okay to C.R Helmrich, isnīt it irritating that the sound leaks?
I mean, if i use headphones, and donīt have them tightly, letīs say i lift them a bit, the sound become, very clear, and not in a good way, sound like a mobile phone if you get what i mean.

I think I know what you mean. Sound leakage is only irritating for people around you, that's why I wrote "If you're mainly going to use your phones at home ...". When you lift your phones away from your ears, the sound becomes thinner simply because you increased the distance between the speakers and your ears, and the phones were not designed for this increased distance. The issue I was hinting at is that of standing waves, the problem you whitness when playing music over speakers in, say, a bathroom vs. from the center of an outdoor football field. The reflections from the bathroom walls make certain frequencies sound boomy, and others may be attenuated. That's also what can happen in closed headphones between the speakers, your eardrums, and the headphone enclosing.

I'm not convinced that burn-in changes the sound very much. Shoes are made of material whose stiffness can change by wearing the shoes. Speakers, however, are made of metals and plastic (incl. the membrane, I assume) and not in direct contact with your ears. So why should the sound change? What can change is your perception of the sound because you get used to the sound of your new phones and might begin to (dis)like it more. So my guess is: no, the sound of your phones will not become smoother or more balanced over time (at least not so much that it changes from "not so good" to "good").

Chris

This post has been edited by C.R.Helmrich: May 6 2012, 16:50


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stephan_g
post May 6 2012, 17:35
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I think the problem with the 280Pros is that like many closed 'phones, they show a bit of a mechanical resonance formed by earpad springiness and clamping force. It's not as severe as what the Beyer DT48s showed in measurements by far, but it does result in a bit of a depression in the midbass around 100 Hz, where many phones and speakers actually have a slight emphasis. (See measurements.) Thus they may be seen as lean on bass. Below this, frequency response actually recovers and extends fairly deep. This oddity has actually been known for a long time, as I remember it being discussed when I was active on Head-Fi 6+ years ago.

Partial compensation of this depression should be possible by using them with an output impedance of about 150 ohms. Typical Realtek headphone outs have 75 ohms, better than nothing.

Overall, 280Pros fall more into the "monitor" school of thought. They're more of a studio workhorse than a "fun" headphone. No amount of "burn-in" (the effect of which would be expected to be very small in cans like these) would change that.

280Pros actually aren't bad cans if you need a closed model, i.e. mostly the isolation it affords, and can put up with the heavy clamping force, warm ears and bass oddities. (They're fairly easy to drive, too.) For comfy home use in quiet surroundings, however, open/semi-open models generally are more attractive. All of this has nothing to do with supraaural (on the ear) vs. circumaural (around the ear); all combinations with the former exist.

It is always useful to know where on the globe you are located and what kind of models you have access to. Pricing tends to vary from continent to continent.

I would be less hesitant to recommend Sennheiser's mid-priced open circumaurals (HD558, HD598) if they weren't very sensitive to output impedance and easily mutated into bass monsters (bass is easily sufficient on 0-ohm outputs and gets bloated fairly quickly), let alone the issues with the plastic developing cracks (it may not be as bad as in the preceding HD5x5 models, but apparently it's still there).

This post has been edited by stephan_g: May 6 2012, 17:36
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IgorC
post May 6 2012, 17:38
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Cushions can change their form. And , yes, I have my doubts about burn-in too.

It taked me a few months to understand the sound of HD 650. But it's not necesary because of burn-in process. Probably because it was my first audiophile-class phones.
It wasn't the case for HD 800. The sound has stopped to change after 2-3 days.

Also the sound changes a lot (huges differences) depending how You wear them. http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/tipstricks.htm
The main rule is: headphones should be put a little bit down from ear channel and a bit in front (well, the picture says it all)

Even an audiophile-class phones can sound inappropriately if You don't wear them smart way.

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saratoga
post May 6 2012, 19:12
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QUOTE (tev777 @ May 6 2012, 00:12) *
Are you using any kind of amplifier? I have the same headphones combined with a Total Airhead . If I am listening to bass heavy music my ears literally vibrate. Given enough power there is NOTHING wrong with the bass in the phones.


Turning up the volume will in fact make bass sound louder given how the equal loudness contours work, but a much better way to accomplish that is just using EQ.

FWIW, heres the foobar2000 EQ settings I use with the HD280s. I came up with it by using replaygain to equalize the loudness of noise in different frequency bands, then adjusted the EQ manually until each band felt equally loud to me.

CODE

-4
0
-1
-3
-8
-11
-10
-11
-11
-13
-14
-8
-8
-13
-16
-10
-11
-11
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zerowalker
post May 7 2012, 16:37
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QUOTE (IgorC @ May 6 2012, 18:38) *
Cushions can change their form. And , yes, I have my doubts about burn-in too.

It taked me a few months to understand the sound of HD 650. But it's not necesary because of burn-in process. Probably because it was my first audiophile-class phones.
It wasn't the case for HD 800. The sound has stopped to change after 2-3 days.

Also the sound changes a lot (huges differences) depending how You wear them. http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/tipstricks.htm
The main rule is: headphones should be put a little bit down from ear channel and a bit in front (well, the picture says it all)

Even an audiophile-class phones can sound inappropriately if You don't wear them smart way.



Well i do try to wear them like that, though i donīt really notice a difference, except if i move my head a gap is made. That makes much bass disappear.

But i was wondering about the High Pitch sound from the letter S.
Itīs really annoying on these head phones on higher volumes, i do remember it annoyting on my other pair as well, but it was a bit better. The AKG cheap ones have a duller sound so it even that out.

Read that one said HD280 takes forever to burn in and the high pitch will even out eventually, but can someone clarify this?

Thanks:)
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markanini
post May 7 2012, 17:08
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QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 7 2012, 16:37) *
Itīs really annoying on these head phones on higher volumes, i do remember it annoyting on my other pair as well, but it was a bit better. The AKG cheap ones have a duller sound so it even that out.

What are you listening to?
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zerowalker
post May 7 2012, 17:17
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QUOTE (markanini @ May 7 2012, 18:08) *
QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 7 2012, 16:37) *
Itīs really annoying on these head phones on higher volumes, i do remember it annoyting on my other pair as well, but it was a bit better. The AKG cheap ones have a duller sound so it even that out.

What are you listening to?



Well pretty much anything, nothing special;S

Okay, think i really need to return this for some others.
Whenever i try some kind of bass thing, i think hmm, it sounds okay;)!
Then i try it on my other two pairs, and they sound alot better on the Smash Bass, where the Hd280 pro sounds like hitting the metal disc.

I canīt think that burn in will make that much difference anymore;S

Not to sure about how it is with the policy of returning headphones.

Can i return them with that 30 days money back thing?

And as i asked before, what can i get for other pairs that is better?
Similar or a bit higher in the price range is possible:)

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DVDdoug
post May 7 2012, 19:10
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QUOTE
Okay so i bought the HD280 Pro as i read it was good, with accurate sound and such.
But i am not satisfied with it
Every headpone (and speaker) sounds different, and different people are going to have different preferences. If you are picky about sound quality, you should go a store and listen before buying. If you can't do that, you've got to understand that you are taking a risk.

And the specifications are not that helpful either... There are different methods for measuring headphones (and speakers), and with headphones, it's difficult to duplicate interaction with the ear. Plus, some manufacturer's seem to "fudge" the specs. If you've got frequency response curves for two diffeerent headphones, from the same (reputable) manufacturer, that might give you a clue. Curves (or a frequency response spec.) from two different manufacturer's is generally useless.

Several years ago, I decided it was time to upgrade from my Koss HV1's. I went to the store, and after listening to several pairs, I decided none of them sounded as good as my Koss... (Those Koss headphones are now dead and gone. sad.gif )

I've got a pair of HD280's and Grado SR225. I prefer the "open" Grados when I don't need isolation, but neither pair has that much bass. I've also got a pair of Superlux HD668B's. These have more bass, and the overall sound is not bad. (For the price, it sounds GREAT!) But, I don't actually listen to headphones that often, and I have not done any A/B listening tests... So, I'm not making any recommendations.


QUOTE
Not to sure about how it is with the policy of returning headphones.

Can i return them with that 30 days money back thing?
Of course, that would depend on the seller's policies...
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zerowalker
post May 7 2012, 19:23
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QUOTE (DVDdoug @ May 7 2012, 20:10) *
QUOTE
Okay so i bought the HD280 Pro as i read it was good, with accurate sound and such.
But i am not satisfied with it
Every headpone (and speaker) sounds different, and different people are going to have different preferences. If you are picky about sound quality, you should go a store and listen before buying. If you can't do that, you've got to understand that you are taking a risk.

And the specifications are not that helpful either... There are different methods for measuring headphones (and speakers), and with headphones, it's difficult to duplicate interaction with the ear. Plus, some manufacturer's seem to "fudge" the specs. If you've got frequency response curves for two diffeerent headphones, from the same (reputable) manufacturer, that might give you a clue. Curves (or a frequency response spec.) from two different manufacturer's is generally useless.

Several years ago, I decided it was time to upgrade from my Koss HV1's. I went to the store, and after listening to several pairs, I decided none of them sounded as good as my Koss... (Those Koss headphones are now dead and gone. sad.gif )

I've got a pair of HD280's and Grado SR225. I prefer the "open" Grados when I don't need isolation, but neither pair has that much bass. I've also got a pair of Superlux HD668B's. These have more bass, and the overall sound is not bad. (For the price, it sounds GREAT!) But, I don't actually listen to headphones that often, and I have not done any A/B listening tests... So, I'm not making any recommendations.


QUOTE
Not to sure about how it is with the policy of returning headphones.

Can i return them with that 30 days money back thing?
Of course, that would depend on the seller's policies...



Well sadly there isnīt any good place to test at all around here, so not to much choice;S
I donīt understand the frequency stuff at all sadly, i just want it to sound good overall, no super mega bass, or Surround special edition for gaming etc.

But i am not into headphones at all, i have just bought them random, and have never really thinked that one has lacked this much in the bass department as this.
And i am really not one that want to EQ the bass and stuff like that, i like clear accoustic sound, but i want the drums and rock smashes to be as heavy as they sound, not Kling Klang if you get my meaning.

I loved tha ones i had before Philips SHN9500 which were very comfortable, and had good sound. But i mainly got them for the comfortable part (i have headphones on all day long pretty much).
But sadly they have broken down, and as they arenīt made anymore(i think?) and i donīt really think they are any Audiophile phones at all, but are just expensive for the Active Noise thing (which i donīt use).
I tried to research on something along that range which is.
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IgorC
post May 7 2012, 19:46
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I'd give a chance to run them during few months. A few times I got some audio hardware and wasn't impressed but later actually got the way it is. But also there were some failures as well. Luckily a cheap ones.

Good alternatives in the similar price range:
Audio Technica ATH-M50, Denon 2000, Sennheiser HD 5xx-6xx, Superlux 668B (aka Samson SR850) http://www.head-fi.org/products/category/headphones

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zerowalker
post May 7 2012, 20:39
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QUOTE (IgorC @ May 7 2012, 20:46) *
I'd give a chance to run them during few months. A few times I got some audio hardware and wasn't impressed but later actually got the way it is. But also there were some failures as well. Luckily a cheap ones.

Good alternatives in the similar price range:
Audio Technica ATH-M50, Denon 2000, Sennheiser HD 5xx-6xx, Superlux 668B (aka Samson SR850) http://www.head-fi.org/products/category/headphones



Well i can drag it out about a month as max, as the shop has that 30 days policy, not even sure i can return it after itīs being used.
But would be awesome if it did change to what i want, but there hasnīt really been any change from day 3 and forward;S

Which of those are comfortable for all day use?
And is Cover Entire Ear;O?

Sorry very bad at headphone constructions.

Thanks:)
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IgorC
post May 7 2012, 22:07
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You can see if it's full size headphones (those cover an ears completely) here http://www.headphone.com/

As of comfort, I can speak for HD650 and Samson SR850/Superlux HD668B. 650s are comfortable. I can wear them during all day without sweeting or any other issue.
Sennheisers have great velour cushions.

Superlux/Samson are not bad at comfort but they are less comfortable than Sennheiser's.

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moozooh
post May 8 2012, 00:50
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QUOTE (zerowalker @ May 5 2012, 23:58) *
And well i use my onboard, but have tried my realtek pcie one, but well they sound about the same to me, and i have to use the onboard for serveral reasons.



One of the likely reasons is that your onboard sound adapter isn't driving them well; poor bass reproduction and unexpectedly low maximum volume are the main symptoms of that. If this is the case, you need a separate amplifier or a sound card with a built-in preamp, like E-mu 0404 USB (a good value for its money, and you get to use it with laptops as well). Actually scratch that, if you want "good sound" with headphones as you claim to, there's no way around an amplifier somewhere in the chain.


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zerowalker
post May 8 2012, 01:09
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QUOTE (IgorC @ May 7 2012, 23:07) *
You can see if it's full size headphones (those cover an ears completely) here http://www.headphone.com/

As of comfort, I can speak for HD650 and Samson SR850/Superlux HD668B. 650s are comfortable. I can wear them during all day without sweeting or any other issue.
Sennheisers have great velour cushions.

Superlux/Samson are not bad at comfort but they are less comfortable than Sennheiser's.



I am starting to lean towards ATH-M50, it seems like they have the bass that Hd 280 lacks, and all seem to prefer it over the 280.
It cost a bit more about 40% where i live, but if they are comfortable and better, aswell as not leaking much or has a very bad isolating (meaning you can here everything even with music playing easily).
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IgorC
post May 8 2012, 01:25
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EMU 0404 probably won't be suitable to drive phones with low or middle impedance.
EMU cards have Zo 22 ohms and there is a rule of thumb "Zo should be less than 1/8 of Zphones". EMU cards are suitable to drive phones with impedance of 200 ohms and higher. 280pro has 64 ohms.
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